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02 Getting Started Utah Beach - Printable Version +- Forums (https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards) +-- Forum: The Firing Line (https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards/forumdisplay.php?fid=1) +--- Forum: Panzer Battles (https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards/forumdisplay.php?fid=280) +--- Thread: 02 Getting Started Utah Beach (/showthread.php?tid=68929) |
02 Getting Started Utah Beach - Dog Soldier - 12-29-2015 I have noticed the discussion about how hard some think bunkers are in this game. Since the Getting Statred scenario of Utah Beach has been mentioned now in several threads, I thought I post a game I played against the AI tonight while watching the Denver Broncos pull a rabbit, and some other nastier things out of their hat to win against the Cincinnati Bengals. Those two bunkers in the center of Utah Beach fell to my attack around turn 4 & 5 IIRC. The two on the north took a bit longer, one right up to the last possible move. Download the game file !02 Getting Started Utah Beach Game End.zip to see the final result. I got a draw. Mostly because I was not too cautious about losses, nor did I send troops far enough north earlier in the game. Download the *.btr files (!02 Getting Started Utah Beach Turn Replays.zip) to watch the actual game turns unfold. Each btr file contains both Allied and Axis parts of each turn. I got a bit sloppy in the recordings in some spots as the football game caught more of my attention.  To run the btr files copy them into your Normandy directory. For most people this should be the path on your machine:C:\John Tiller Software\Battles of Normandy. Click on File menu and choose Replay. Then choose the btr file from the list presented. Hope this little demonstration give some people who are struggling with bunkers or the game in general some ideas to use in their games. Enjoy and comment on this thread or ask more questions about storming beaches in PzB Normandy. Dog Soldier [attachment=4339] [attachment=4340] RE: 02 Getting Started Utah Beach - wiggum - 12-29-2015 Thanks. RE: 02 Getting Started Utah Beach - panzerde - 12-30-2015 Very useful to watch. Thanks! RE: 02 Getting Started Utah Beach - Compass Rose - 12-30-2015 Thanks for taking the time to create this, for us. RE: 02 Getting Started Utah Beach - FroBodine - 01-01-2016 Excellent replays, and very helpful. Thank you for doing this! RE: 02 Getting Started Utah Beach - nim8or - 01-09-2016 I don't have PzB:Normandy yet, only PzB:Kursk so I can't view the replays. I would love to see something like this for a Kursk scenario to demonstrate the tactics discussed, say on the #705_02 Hill 228.6 scenario, where I've never been able to even get a draw. (Edit: after posting this I tried one more time and did get a draw, one turn away from minor victory implementing what I think is described above. It certainly works better than everything I've tried up to this point, thanks.) RE: 02 Getting Started Utah Beach - Dog Soldier - 01-09-2016 For Kursk you want to look at these threads. Klyuchi – Attrition (a tutorial) From the Front - Bunker Assault! From the Front - Smoke The scenario from PzB Kursk #0705_02 Hill 228.6 - SS Preliminaries is a tough one for an Axis player. It requires clearing the hill of bunkers with only infantry and no AT support weapons. It is a good lesson in why combined arms are required to penetrate the Soviet bunker lines in Kursk. FWIW, those line were penetrated very quickly considering the Soviets spent six months building them. I would suggest you read the article in Klyuchi then try the scenario yourself. That is a better place to start learning Kursk infantry tactics. Dog Soldier RE: 02 Getting Started Utah Beach - Nemo84 - 01-09-2016 It's quite an interesting demonstration and a great help in learning the game for new players, but it doesn't really address the issues a lot of people like me are having with the bunkers. The issue is not that we are incapable of taking bunkers, it's that doing so requires an a-historical and unrealistic amount of time and effort for each individual bunker. And your demonstration kind of proves that point. As a veteran player taking on a tutorial scenario, you barely manage to achieve a draw. By 10:00 am you have cleared 5 bunkers, with two remaining. The German army still has 50+ soldiers, 11 AT guns and 3 mortars overlooking the landing site. None of your men are more than 2 km from the sea, despite heavy and aggressive use of both infantry, armor and artillery. On the real Utah Beach, the entire landing area was secured by 8:30 am (turn 5), the point where you take your first bunkers. The tanks from 70th Tank Battalion were not even needed to aid the infantry in overcoming the beach fortifications. The northernmost objective, the one you did not get in your game, was taken by a single infantry company supported by 5 tanks and naval gunfire. This supported company easily dealt with several such fortifications during the course of that day. I challenge anyone to replicate this in-game, as my naval gunfire can't even scratch a bunker hex and attempting to use a single company for clearing one is suicidally ineffective. Until I can see this sort of historical progress, I'll continue my belief that bunkers are too strong and assaults too weak. RE: 02 Getting Started Utah Beach - nim8or - 01-10-2016 Quote:For Kursk you want to look at these threads. Many thanks, Dog Soldier! RE: 02 Getting Started Utah Beach - Dog Soldier - 01-10-2016 Everyone has their own take on any game made should go in terms of pace of the attack. Ask 30 gamers and get 30 different answers. Remember, that in a game, a player has complete control over their units. Something historical commanders did not have. The troops go precisely where you want them and attack with precisely the coordination the player wants. Nothing worked so perfectly in historical terms. And players can do this all game long. Perfection in control of the troops. If a single company can clear a fortification in a single assault or two as you want, then Omaha would be a walk over. Inland the Norman villages, all buildings built from local stone and noted ans quite strong, fortified by the Germans from several years of occupation would be too quickly taken. The player can make all their units move to the one hole in the line at maximum speed like a water heading for a drain rather than what actually happened where delays in exploiting a breakthrough occurred through out the war by both sides due to lack of knowledge of enemy's true predicament. What player halts their British XXX Corps tanks in any Market Garden game after Nijmegen bridge falls as happened historically to wait for the infantry? What player has the XXX corps infantry tied up in Nijmegen? They seem to be available in any game by any company i have ever seen. I think if one takes the broader view that the pace of an attack in PzB games can match that of historical rate of advances in most cases, then the game is a success. The fact that a veteran player was only able to achieve a draw means I achieved a relatively historical result. Most of the beach defense was destroyed. I was distracted a bit by the football game I was watching while playing the game during commercial breaks. BTW, it was a great football game! I was not trying to play for a major win. Major wins on a regular basis is poor game design in IMHO. Games like that can be played when I cannot legally operate a motor vehicle and need two guns to hit both of the enemy units because I am seeing in double vision.  PzB games are designed to deliberately to achieve a draw result against players of equal skill in PBEM. Getting a draw against the AI is just a matter of the artificial clock running out. This is a scenario one plays only to get the basics of the game functions. The other scenarios are the focus of the game and quite challenging, in PBEM play. A complete walkover against the AI, because the AI can be easily tricked by a pretty pony to follow. Like any AI it likes Shiny. Right Mal? Why did Firefly get canceled? Rupert Murdock is the most vile betrayer since Darth Vader. Excuse me. I digress. Do not take these games so seriously. They are made for fun. I, for one, believe they are very successful in being fun to play. I did not advance more than two Km off Utah in this particular scenario because that is not the focus of the scenario. There are no VP locations to the west. Why go for a walk? Dog Soldier |
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