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Germans ONLY "Little Saturn" No Russians Pls - Printable Version +- Forums (https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards) +-- Forum: The Firing Line (https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards/forumdisplay.php?fid=1) +--- Forum: Combat Mission (https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards/forumdisplay.php?fid=10) +---- Forum: Tournaments (https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards/forumdisplay.php?fid=51) +----- Forum: Ratzki's "Little Saturn" Tournament (https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards/forumdisplay.php?fid=178) +----- Thread: Germans ONLY "Little Saturn" No Russians Pls (/showthread.php?tid=51414) |
RE: Germans ONLY "Little Saturn" No Russians Pls - Pvt. Sofronije - 07-31-2009 I'm not used to urban fighting, so I could use some tips or maybe somebody could point me out some reading if there is any? The map is too big to hold with these troops, so I was thinking about strong point or two... Our main effort should be to hold on to the rail station. :chin: Guys? RE: Germans ONLY "Little Saturn" No Russians Pls - cargol - 07-31-2009 An experienced player as attacker will try with small detachments to reveal ur positions and then shell it one by one with his Tanks (if available) from a safe distance in order to be secured from the close range German AT weapons. The Russians will have the advantage ,if they possess SMG troops, in a close quarter battle as their firepower is huge at close ranges. Try to place ur MGs in positions with good fields of fire in order to deny the Russians from identifying ur troops locations. Have in mind that factories and heavy buildings are harder to be destroyed by shellfire. Also if u place a unit of urs in a two level building if this colapses ur troops will suffer much more casualties than if they were in a one level building. Sometimes the whole squad is destroyed. Rubble provide excellent cover so dont hesitate to occupy ,if possible, any rubbled terrain. If u had engineers i d suggest u to create rubbles on ur own by using demo charges and then hide there. To summarise keep those recce detachments away with MG fire keep his SMG teams(if any) in a distance of more than 100 meters,where their FP is significantlly reduced,place ur AT Guns together with some short of inf protection and remember that the one who defends all defendes nothing :) RE: Germans ONLY "Little Saturn" No Russians Pls - Pvt. Sofronije - 08-01-2009 Thanks, mate! 
RE: Germans ONLY "Little Saturn" No Russians Pls - Pvt. Sofronije - 08-01-2009 Should I try to remain in touch with KG B or KG D on my flanks? That is, if enemy breaks through should I let him break between me and KG B or me and KG D? Or something else? :chin: RE: Germans ONLY "Little Saturn" No Russians Pls - cargol - 08-01-2009 Dont bother about enemy's breakout as long as we are controlling the map cause even if he try to avoid ur forces and pass through he would be isolated ,out of supply and with a counter attack we will crush them having the counter attack force as hammer and ur KG as anvil. RE: Germans ONLY "Little Saturn" No Russians Pls - cargol - 08-01-2009 So far Russians have made little progress,given the fact that our forces are weak at the begining of the campaign. I m sure that as the campaign progresses we are going to receive much more reinforcements. So it is of significant importance to hold them at this stage and inflict as many casulties as possible RE: Urban Combat Techniques for Chuck - Balkan Warrior - 08-01-2009 Hi Chuck!:) Below are some article I had from Paintman about Urban Combat that should point you in the right directon! Hope it helps! Urban Combat Author: (FGM) Paintman (66.101.201.---) Date: 03-28-05 03:43 Okay, urban combat is whole subject unto itself. Based on my experience with urban combat in Iraq, it is a slow, dangerous, exhausting, and terrifying ordeal. And it requires an entirely different set of tactics and skills from what we usually use. Now, much of the MOUT tactics I know do not apply in Combat Mission, because of the way that cities and buildings are modeled. Such as the fact that you try to never to enter a building through doors; instead you come from the roof, a window, or blow a hole in the wall for entrance. And the Borg factor REALLY makes urban combat in CM unrealistic. To know exactly how purely chaotic urban fighting is, you to have experience it for yourself. No one is ever quite sure just what the hell is going on, OR where anyone else, friend or foe, is. Another thing that CM makes very hard for the attacker in an urban CM environment is the time restriction. Some scenarios give you 30 minutes to take a town, when in reality it could take 30 minutes to take ONE large building! In MOUT rushing gets you shot. Slow is smooth, and smooth is fast. The first big difference between urban and rural fighting in CM: Concealment does not exist. You are either under cover or you are not. That leads to the second big difference: You are either in very good cover, or you are completely exposed. No in-betweens. And the third: You are in a 3-dimensional battlefield. Attacks not only come from the front and to the sides, but now they come from above and below too! And the fourth: Extreme close quarters attacks can come at any second without warning. First we will look over the terrain that makes the urban environment so unique. The light building: Comes in tall and short flavours. These are more of a liability really if you are getting shot at. Their construction will protect you somewhat from small arms fire, but you better be ready to scatter when the heavy weapons start hitting, because when that building collapses you are in a world of hurt. For me these are not long-term fighting positions. The heavy building: Now these are some of the best cover in the game. As long as heavy HE isn't hitting you, you can hold a tall heavy building for a long time against a superior force. While I am here I'll touch on a subject that makes all the difference in how you plan your movement: In a block of heavy tall buildings, you cannot move straight from building to building. First you have to exit onto the street and move 10 meters or so before you can enter the next building. Streets and pavement: It is VERY dangerous to move under fire in streets and pavement because of the ground itself: it is very flat, unyielding, and hard, making ricochets very common. First I am going to look at attacking an urban environment. Attacking is very unforgiving of mistakes. One mistake will easily cost you an entire platoon or even company quickly if you aren't careful. When analyzing the terrain for your attack, you are going to have to pick your routes. Think of your route in steps: First I take this block, then I control this street, then I take this next block, then I control this next street, and so on. First you gain a foothold in the town, usually with one or two blocks of buildings, and then move on from there. Slow is smooth, and smooth is fast! Don't rush! On the attack keeping 360 degree, 3-D security is VITAL. OK, you need to take the attack one building and one block at a time. To take a building or block, first you HAVE to isolate it. It has to be cut off from other enemy forces so that he cannot reinforce it, slip out, or hinder your attack from other building blocks. How do you isolate a building/block? This is the base of fire's job. Use armor, guns, and MGs to control the streets around the target building so that he can't reinforce it or retreat from it. Use smoke if you need it. Smoke is VERY useful for blocking fields of fire down streets because it only takes one or two armor smoke rounds to do the job. You now have the building/block isolated. The next step is to achieve superiority of fires, as discussed in a previous thread. Once you have the upper hand firepower-wise, it is time to gain a foothold in the building or block. Send one or two squads or a HS, across the street and a short distance into a building. Have them immediatly start sweeping the outer edges of the building, top and bottom, or hiding enemy units. Continue sending units across and expanding your foothold. You now have one of the buildings in the block. You have your foothold. You will repeat the process as necessary to take the entire block, going as fast as METT-T allows. Remember that when you take a building that gives you access to a street, move up machine guns to cover that street and thus deny your opponent use of it. If you have to exit a tall heavy building to enter an adjacent one, as explained previously, smoke right in front of your exit point is useful to help you get into the next building safely. You now have the entire block. By now your MGs are covering any new streets you have access to, and your infanty are providing 360 degree security from this block. Your follow-up infantry should be fully searching the entire block for any hiding enemy. At this point you are going to pick your next target block and repeat the process. Armor in MOUT: Armor is at it's most vulnerable in a MOUT environment. It is easy for infantry to mount close-quarters attacks with no warning. Therefore, armor should usually be kept a healthy distance away from uncleared buildings. Never lead with the armor in an attack scenario. Also, be wary of any wooded areas in the city, because if he has guns they will most likely be put there. Close support vehicles like StuHs and the 105mm Sherman, and flamethrower vehicles, are worth their weight in gold! If a building is just too well defended to gain a foothold, heavy HE and flamethrowers will flush them out in no time. END! OK, discusson. While you are taking your time isolating a block and using a large part of your force to assault and cut off a building, Im getting my men into the sewers and working on just 1 of your flanks with others. Just as you commence your much deliberated assault, Im going to try and hit you with overwhelming force from just 1 flank. Also my defending force is going to be hiding in the rear of the building. If its a factory, then your Inf will now be isolated as your guns wont be able to support you. With cm numbers in an assault - your not going to have overwhelming force everywhere. So you expend a great deal of your power, that I may now have tied down. Im going to counterattack you wherever I can as somewhere you will be weak. Discuss...... FIBUA is diffrent in CM to real life as you said.... Reply To This Message Re: Urban Combat Author: (FGM) Paintman (66.101.201.---) Date: 03-30-05 14:46 Summing up previous post for the attack: To take a town (Or target urban area): 1. Anyalze the routes you need to take, looking for fields of fire down streets, key buildings to take. Identify any dominant terrain surrounding the town that you will need to take to establish your base of fire and isolate the town. 2. Isolate the town / target urban area. By taking, destroying, or suppressing enemy units and dominant terrain outside the town perimeter. This will allow you to attack as you wish to. 3. Based on known enemy units and the route you need to take, decide where you are going to estabilish your foothold. 4. Isolate, and achieve superiority of fires where you will estabilish your foothold. "Stronghold" buildings are best totally destroyed with heavy HE to save you the trouble of taking it the hard way. 5. Take your foothold. Use it as a staging area and jump-off point to methodically move in, block by block. Encounter a well-defended building that you can't take? - Blow them to Hell with arty or HE. - Flush them out with flamethrowers and gun them down as they enter the street. - Throw smoke on them, OR on the streets that they are shooting down, and manuever around it until you have a better position. Control those streets! Reply To This Message Re: Urban Combat Author: (FGM) Paintman (66.101.201.---) Date: 03-30-05 14:57 See now this is what I am talking about. That is why I emphasized 360 degree, 3-D security. If I identify where that attack is coming from, and I should if my security is doing their jobs, I'm going to try and control the streets where it is coming from, and then they can just sit there and stew, cause they ain't going anywhere fast. True, reacting to this counter-attack will tie up forces, but if I spot it before it can hit somewhere vulnerable, I'm going to halt it with my larger forces, and now the defender also has forces tied up: And he has less to spread round than I do. As for the defenses in the back: This where only sending in a squad / HS at first is useful. I just traded a mere HS or squad for the defender's element of surprise, and now I blow or burn the building down. Nope you won't have the advantage of numbers eveywhere, but hopefully you will have it where you need it. Reply To This Message Re: Urban Combat Author: (FGM)Paintman (66.101.201.---) Date: 03-30-05 15:03 Add-On: It doesn't necessarily take large numbers to isolate a building or block: It can be as simple as a single MG or piece of armor. Also, all those forces you have sitting on their asses waiting to move in can be sitting at those streets, helping you out with security or isolation. Reply To This Message Re: Urban Combat Author: Geordie@FGM (---.range81-152.btcentralplus.com) Date: 03-30-05 15:09 Ah, but as soon as your team or squad is eliminated I move my platoon out of the building. Stop my flankers. I move my plt to next building in the rear. Now you are taking time to assault an empty unit. I do the same with the next building, only this time, when you have expended time to get there. I only have 1 squad in it, easily enough to take on your team. Your going to have to go through the whole process again. Over and over again, and unlike real life, here the clock is a ticking. - Discuss..... Reply To This Message Re: Urban Combat Author: (FGM) Paintman (66.101.201.---) Date: 03-30-05 15:22 If the building was propely isolated, they will be gunned down in the streets as they try to retreat. If I was unable to do so, then there is a problem there. But I have men to spare and they can only repeat the process before their luck runs out. Yep you ARE right it's different in real life, so that's why it's so nice in CM it only takes a turn or two tell if a building is empty or not. Team encounters squad, but the great cover goes both ways and the team benefits from it too. After a turn or two and I assume that's all that is in that building I move in more. Squad is overwhelmed. The defense you are describing is actually just how I would do it, trading space for time and it's a good one. It comes down to if the attacker can recognize what is happening and beat the defender at his game. Hopefully the scenario designer, if he has imposed a very limited time restriction has compensated me in some way, such as very superior numbers, the nature of the terrain, or something else that I can use to my advantage. As I said, METT-T dictates how fast and careful I have to be in advancing. One of the T's stands for "Time". Reply To This Message Re: Urban Combat Author: (FGM) Paintman (66.101.201.---) Date: 03-30-05 15:54 Also, I think people are getting the wrong impression of my explanations, because of my writing style. There doesn't have to be just one foothold, or axis of attack, or whatever. There can be ten! Hell the base of fire might just be a MG that happens to be sitting on that corner, or your forces controlling the street might just be a tank that happens to be sitting there with a field of fire. All depends on METT-T. Hell most of what I talk about, the good players already do, I'm just describing it. Also, the above described tactics will never work as planned; they will fall apart most likely. That is the nature of the beast, as Zemke once said the other player has a vote too! How you react to what happens will make all the difference. And there is no one-size-fits-all approach to that, because there's a million-and-one different situations. Hopefully though, you can set the stage to start the battle at your advantage; how well you go from there is up to you. Reply To This Message Re: Urban Combat Author: Crusader (---.server.ntli.net) Date: 03-30-05 20:35 You didn't mention preliminary arty bombardment. This sort of fight is one where the heavy arty actually comes into its own, either to smash a corridor through a built up area, or to flatten any particularly nasty looking dominant positions before you have to try and assault them RE: Germans ONLY "Little Saturn" No Russians Pls - Balkan Warrior - 08-01-2009 Hi Chuck and Cagol! Hope all is well! I just realized the maps are already made and the Germans do the set up! Does that mean we can download the file and start our battle planning now?? Chuck! Since we are fighting the same battle, I guess I had better read some of the info I sent you as well! Also Cargol, can Chuck and I colloborate on our battle plans to share our thoughts?? Let me know? In the meantime, Zeig zum Vaterland! :)! RE: Germans ONLY "Little Saturn" No Russians Pls - cargol - 08-01-2009 For sure Cders can speak to each other share their views and exchange opinions after all we are the Wehrmacht not the Red army :) As for beginning the game im not sure maybe Ratzki will send us a last min intel but feel free to study the map and prepare ur plan for victory!! BTW very interesting and helpfull the Urban combat hints, thanks for sharing. RE: Germans ONLY "Little Saturn" No Russians Pls - cargol - 08-01-2009 For the attention of Ratzki: Shall we start preparing the set up or we have to wait a little bit more? |
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