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Smolensk 41 opponent wanted - Printable Version +- Forums (https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards) +-- Forum: The Firing Line (https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards/forumdisplay.php?fid=1) +--- Forum: Tiller Operational Campaigns (https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards/forumdisplay.php?fid=11) +--- Thread: Smolensk 41 opponent wanted (/showthread.php?tid=58943) Pages:
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RE: Smolensk 41 opponent wanted - larsonney - 06-02-2011 Ok, sold! VM alt rules and optional surrender...go ahead & send me your first turn... Jon RE: Smolensk 41 opponent wanted - Metnegomilj - 06-02-2011 Ok, mate! :) RE: Smolensk 41 opponent wanted - alaric99x - 06-02-2011 Wait, let me correct my previous post. Alternative indirect fire helps the defender. I've got some experience with this rule too. It makes it costly for the attacker to mass too many units in a stack because defending artillery will hurt all the units. The attacker will often need to mass units while the defender will generally have only one or two units in a stack. So, sorry about the previous misinformation, but I think this rule strongly favors the defender. I don't like it anyway. RE: Smolensk 41 opponent wanted - Metnegomilj - 06-02-2011 Larsoney, first turn sent to : [email protected] RE: Smolensk 41 opponent wanted - larsonney - 06-02-2011 (06-02-2011, 10:30 AM)alaric99x Wrote: Wait, let me correct my previous post. Alternative indirect fire helps the defender. I've got some experience with this rule too. It makes it costly for the attacker to mass too many units in a stack because defending artillery will hurt all the units. The attacker will often need to mass units while the defender will generally have only one or two units in a stack. That's true, but I think it also hurts the defender in this case...those big, bulky Russian battalions can add up when stacked together! RE: Smolensk 41 opponent wanted - Dog Soldier - 06-03-2011 Larsonney is correct. The alt artillery fire OR are not specific advantages to an attacker of defender. They are an advantage to the side that has or can break down into smaller size units. To see this in S41, just set up a quick situation where one of the Das Reich SS motorized infantry BN are attacked in clear terrain by a Russian artillery unit with at least 30 guns. I chose the SS because their BN are the biggest soft targets in the Axis OB. Then split the battalion into companies in separate hexes. Note the difference in losses and fatigue. Then fire a German standard divisional artillery unit (less guns higher quality) at a stack of either three 450 men or two 550 men Russian infantry units in clear terrain. This is the typical Russian stack needed to hold a hex and inflict real damage on German infantry. Anything smaller is just a delaying action. Note the difference in losses and fatigue with and without the alt fire rules. I think you see on average over time more Russian units disrupted by the alt artillery fire rule making the German artillery about 50% more effective in disrupting a defending hex so it can be assaulted earlier than without the alt artillery fire rule. This is a factor of the Russian side (or any side) having large units with the majority of C or D quality units. With out the alt artillery fire OR, one is modeling the stacked units being spread out in echelon which is a more reasonable formation inside the hex for average or poor quality units than being tightly packed to maximize forward direct firepower, a risk only higher quality units can take. Bottom line, the alt artillery fire rules are all about unit sizes and not attack or defense. Using the alt artillery fire in S41 means Russian infantry counter attacks will be broken up before they start. German forces will break down into companies when approaching a position, then combine to make assaults and direct fire once contact is made when Russian artillery is present and set up. Or on flat terrain, a screen of companies from one BN will form a skirmish line to hide the big multiple BN stacks following up one hex behind so the real attackers in the second line are not subject to defending artillery fire. This tactic is nullified if all units are the same size. Russian defender, chose your ground well. ;) Another curious thing I think will be interesting to report on your game larsonney, will be the effect of a VM _alt pdt high movement costs on the Russian forces ability to break contact and retreat units to the safety behind the next line of defense to recover and fight again another day. High movement costs for woods and urban terrain means there are no Russian units in the oob that can enter such terrain if not adjacent to the woods or urban hex at the start of their move without the help of a road or trail. On the other hand, the high terrain costs will slow German flanking moves through such terrain. It will be interesting to see if these factors balance out or swing the game to the advantage of the far more mobile German units making them relatively even more mobile to the Russians than in the stock game or the Michael Avanzini, Rick Bancroft XP2 pdt. Good luck and have a good game. Dog Soldier |
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