Determing Purchase Points for Map Size - Printable Version

Determing Purchase Points for Map Size - Printable Version

+- Forums (https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards)
+-- Forum: The Firing Line (https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards/forumdisplay.php?fid=1)
+--- Forum: Steel Panthers Series (https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards/forumdisplay.php?fid=14)
+--- Thread: Determing Purchase Points for Map Size (/showthread.php?tid=66255)

Pages: 1 2

RE: Determing Purchase Points for Map Size - roman - 04-16-2014

Ok. Thanks Cross.
I had read that the density of men in front of the second war was high. Except in Russia where land areas are very large.
In perhaps the Korean War was also used a high density of men. In Vietnam anymore.
Every war has its particular characteristics.
It is my assessment correct?

RE: Determing Purchase Points for Map Size - Cross - 04-16-2014

(04-16-2014, 01:44 AM)roman Wrote: Ok. Thanks Cross.
I had read that the density of men in front of the second war was high. Except in Russia where land areas are very large.
In perhaps the Korean War was also used a high density of men. In Vietnam anymore.
Every war has its particular characteristics.
It is my assessment correct?

I have no idea about frontages for the Korean or Vietnam war, but otherwise I'd say your assessment is about correct.

Generally, open terrain allows for larger frontages, where close terrain requires narrower frontages.

Although certain theaters in WWII had high densities of men, battalions in The Great War had even narrower fronts. With many Great War defensive fronts of about 500 - 1000m per battalion, instead of WWIIs 1000 - 2000m.

Cross

RE: Determing Purchase Points for Map Size - roman - 04-16-2014

Some points about the game:
- High density = feast for artillery.
In a game with high density of units should be restricted enough artillery?
- A battalion could have a front of 40 hexes (2000 mts). And that depth?
If the depth is large then you can outwit the best artillery, I guess.

RE: Determing Purchase Points for Map Size - low_bidder - 04-16-2014

(04-16-2014, 02:43 AM)Cross Wrote:
(04-16-2014, 01:44 AM)roman Wrote: Ok. Thanks Cross.
I had read that the density of men in front of the second war was high. Except in Russia where land areas are very large.
In perhaps the Korean War was also used a high density of men. In Vietnam anymore.
Every war has its particular characteristics.
It is my assessment correct?

I have no idea about frontages for the Korean or Vietnam war, but otherwise I'd say your assessment is about correct.

Generally, open terrain allows for larger frontages, where close terrain requires narrower frontages.

Although certain theaters in WWII had high densities of men, battalions in The Great War had even narrower fronts. With many Great War defensive fronts of about 500 - 1000m per battalion, instead of WWIIs 1000 - 2000m.

Cross

Weapons and communications matter. For the conscripts used in WW1, 100 meters was about as far away as they could be expected to hit something. Most formations were "square" back in WW1. 4 squads, 4 platoons, 4 companies, 4 Battalions, 4 Regiments, etc. Normal was 3 up one back, so a platoon had a frontage of 600 meters, a Company 1800. This created communications problems, since very few humans can speak (shout?) loud enough to be heard several hundred meters away over normal battlefield noise. So the 'real' frontage was what a Company commander could make himself be heard over. 2 to 3 hundred meters.
In our little hex world that translates into a 'center' squad, a squad 2 hexes to each side and the Zero squad 2 hexes behind. So the physical frontage is 5 hexes or 250 meters. Everything changes when the formation becomes 'triangle' (3 unit formations). Or when weapons teams are added to the mix. Especially MG's. SP does a poor job of modelling MG's. MG's affect multiple hex zones in the real world, which has no hexes. The 'Z' key comes close, which is why it is there.
Players misuse the 'z' key because they do not understand infantry tactics.
But 'Z' key ignorance is not the topic.

RE: Determing Purchase Points for Map Size - Cross - 04-17-2014

(04-16-2014, 02:32 PM)roman Wrote: Some points about the game:
- High density = feast for artillery.
In a game with high density of units should be restricted enough artillery?
- A battalion could have a front of 40 hexes (2000 mts). And that depth?
If the depth is large then you can outwit the best artillery, I guess.

You are right that high density could mean a feast for artillery. But this would be the same concern for both sides, so is more of a game style choice. I usually advocate an artillery limit regardless of unit density, but personally I agree that an artillery limit would be more desirable on a map with high unit density.

A battalion with a 40 hex front is more of a historic guide. You may want to use a larger map but keep your battalion frontage at no more than 40 hexes.
If I was to use a 40 hex map height, I would have at least an 100 hex map width, because your battalion is often in a box shape and both you and your opponent's battalion may need 40x40 hexes each (minimum map size 40x80 just to fit both battalions on the map), plus room to maneuver.

Personally, I like larger maps. But I may keep my battalion/s within historic frontage limits, so instead of thinly spreading units all along the front (always a mistake) you are better to keep company formations close enough to support one another.

Cross

RE: Determing Purchase Points for Map Size - low_bidder - 04-17-2014

Command and control makes a big difference. The player that allows his units to get spread out loses 90% of the time. Fire and maneuver. Maneuver and fire. It is better for a map to be too big then too small.
SP uses physical flags. Mostly that means you have to capture 21 hexes. Or rather you have to be holding 11 at the end of the game. Doesn't matter what size map they are on. If you are worried about your flanks, that is what scouts are for, Remember Patton's words; Make the other guy worry about his flanks. Or something like that.