cleaning rubble in Normandy 44 - Printable Version

cleaning rubble in Normandy 44 - Printable Version

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RE: cleaning rubble in Normandy 44 - Ricky B - 02-06-2021

Good point on the frozen conditions!

As to working, as Green noted it does work. But I gave up years ago except in special situations like in Bulge for bottlenecks as it could take so long.

And just to test it, I just set up a test, with digging in set to 100% and using a battalion of C engineers. It took 2 turns to turn RUBBLE to Rubble. But the game default for rubble, that I used for me test, was set to 6% digging in. So as noted, half that, and other mods, and it could be 50 or more turns especially with bad luck in the checks.

Rick

RE: cleaning rubble in Normandy 44 - bigus - 02-06-2021

(02-06-2021, 03:18 PM)Green Wrote:
(02-06-2021, 03:13 PM)bigus Wrote:
(02-06-2021, 02:56 PM)Green Wrote:
(02-06-2021, 02:45 PM)bigus Wrote: 12 turns in and still haven't cleared the rubble.......

Are the conditions Frozen? That could be a factor as that would make Digging In impossible and so may affect rubble clearance.

Yes frozen, how does it effect rubble clearance?

No, I just checked and it doesn't. Bear in mind that when something is a 1 in 20 chance, the chance of it not happening in the first 13 turns is roughly 50%. It is working, it just takes time and a bit of luck.

Then I've been extremely unlucky the last 10 turns.
The problem, could be scenario specific too.

RE: cleaning rubble in Normandy 44 - Green - 02-06-2021

(02-06-2021, 03:46 PM)bigus Wrote: Then I've been extremely unlucky the last 10 turns.
The problem, could be scenario specific too.

I

The only thing that is scenario specific is the parameter data that is being used. Check and see what the Digging In percentage is. For Moscow '41 I think it is always 10%. So, each turn there is a 1 in 20 chance of clearing RUBBLE and that chance is independent of the previous chances. You can easily go for more than 20 turns without being lucky. Simple as that. I do not see anything 'extreme' about your luck. And anyway sometimes you can be very unlucky.

RE: cleaning rubble in Normandy 44 - bigus - 02-06-2021

(02-06-2021, 04:02 PM)Green Wrote:
(02-06-2021, 03:46 PM)bigus Wrote: Then I've been extremely unlucky the last 10 turns.
The problem, could be scenario specific too.

I

The only thing that is scenario specific is the parameter data that is being used. Check and see what the Digging In percentage is. For Moscow '41 I think it is always 10%. So, each turn there is a 1 in 20 chance of clearing RUBBLE and that chance is independent of the previous chances. You can easily go for more than 20 turns without being lucky. Simple as that. I do not see anything 'extreme' about your luck. And anyway sometimes you can be very unlucky.

Parameter data is scenario specific then?
Rubble clearing is parameter specific?

Then I would think the chance to clear rubble is scenario specific or parameter specific?

Why didn't you just say so....

RE: cleaning rubble in Normandy 44 - Green - 02-06-2021

(02-06-2021, 04:24 PM)bigus Wrote:
(02-06-2021, 04:02 PM)Green Wrote:
(02-06-2021, 03:46 PM)bigus Wrote: Then I've been extremely unlucky the last 10 turns.
The problem, could be scenario specific too.

I

The only thing that is scenario specific is the parameter data that is being used. Check and see what the Digging In percentage is. For Moscow '41 I think it is always 10%. So, each turn there is a 1 in 20 chance of clearing RUBBLE and that chance is independent of the previous chances. You can easily go for more than 20 turns without being lucky. Simple as that. I do not see anything 'extreme' about your luck. And anyway sometimes you can be very unlucky.

Parameter data is scenario specific then?
Rubble clearing is parameter specific?

Then I would think the chance to clear rubble is scenario specific or parameter specific?

Why didn't you just say so....

Maybe because it is explained in the rules and I am not paid to answer your questions.

RE: cleaning rubble in Normandy 44 - ComradeP - 02-06-2021

It's parameter data specific, never scenario specific. At least not in the sense that the scenario influences the chance to turn RUBBLE into Rubble. It's possible a certain side has no engineer units in the scenario, but that doesn't make the process itself scenario specific.

RE: cleaning rubble in Normandy 44 - bigus - 02-07-2021

(02-06-2021, 05:40 PM)Green Wrote:
(02-06-2021, 04:24 PM)bigus Wrote:
(02-06-2021, 04:02 PM)Green Wrote:
(02-06-2021, 03:46 PM)bigus Wrote: Then I've been extremely unlucky the last 10 turns.
The problem, could be scenario specific too.

I

The only thing that is scenario specific is the parameter data that is being used. Check and see what the Digging In percentage is. For Moscow '41 I think it is always 10%. So, each turn there is a 1 in 20 chance of clearing RUBBLE and that chance is independent of the previous chances. You can easily go for more than 20 turns without being lucky. Simple as that. I do not see anything 'extreme' about your luck. And anyway sometimes you can be very unlucky.

Parameter data is scenario specific then?
Rubble clearing is parameter specific?

Then I would think the chance to clear rubble is scenario specific or parameter specific?

Why didn't you just say so....

Maybe because it is explained in the rules and I am not paid to answer your questions.

Fair enough.
Parameter Data. I found the rule that says the chance to clear rubble is half the digging in parameter.

This brings up another question.
If clearing rubble is tied to digging in parameter then my unit will never clear the rubble since digging in is not allowed in frozen conditions?

RE: cleaning rubble in Normandy 44 - Xerxes77 - 02-07-2021

(02-07-2021, 01:13 AM)bigus Wrote: Fair enough.
Parameter Data. I'm still having trouble finding the rule that ties clearing rubble to digging in.
It's really not that clear. Almost like when it says rubble has no effect on combat yet I see a modifier.
In reality its the town or city that gets the modifier and not the rubble.

I found it in the User manual under "Clearing rubble":
"The probability that the rubble will be cleared in the hex is half the Digging-In Parameter Data value per turn."

So the chance that rubble will be cleared in a turn is based on the Parameter Data and is hard-coded to be half the Parameter Data value for "Digging-In".

In an indirect sense, the chance is also scenario-specific as scenarios can specify the parameter data file to use.

EDIT: Oops, too late.

RE: cleaning rubble in Normandy 44 - Xerxes77 - 02-07-2021

(02-07-2021, 01:13 AM)bigus Wrote: This brings up another question.
If clearing rubble is tied to digging in parameter then my unit will never clear the rubble since digging in is not allowed in frozen conditions?

You cannot dig-in on Frozen ground, but the chance to clear rubble is still tied to the Parameter Data value.
If you set a value of 200 for "Digging In", your engineers will always take just 1 turn to clear RUBBLE, even in Frozen conditions. (Just tested this in Mius)

RE: cleaning rubble in Normandy 44 - Plain Ian - 02-07-2021

(02-07-2021, 01:13 AM)bigus Wrote:
(02-06-2021, 05:40 PM)Green Wrote:
(02-06-2021, 04:24 PM)bigus Wrote:
(02-06-2021, 04:02 PM)Green Wrote:
(02-06-2021, 03:46 PM)bigus Wrote: Then I've been extremely unlucky the last 10 turns.
The problem, could be scenario specific too.

I

The only thing that is scenario specific is the parameter data that is being used. Check and see what the Digging In percentage is. For Moscow '41 I think it is always 10%. So, each turn there is a 1 in 20 chance of clearing RUBBLE and that chance is independent of the previous chances. You can easily go for more than 20 turns without being lucky. Simple as that. I do not see anything 'extreme' about your luck. And anyway sometimes you can be very unlucky.

Parameter data is scenario specific then?
Rubble clearing is parameter specific?

Then I would think the chance to clear rubble is scenario specific or parameter specific?

Why didn't you just say so....

Maybe because it is explained in the rules and I am not paid to answer your questions.

Fair enough.
Parameter Data. I found the rule that says the chance to clear rubble is half the digging in parameter.

This brings up another question.
If clearing rubble is tied to digging in parameter then my unit will never clear the rubble since digging in is not allowed in frozen conditions?