(09-11-2021, 10:42 AM)bigus Wrote:

(09-11-2021, 01:54 AM)TheGrayMouser Wrote: Just thought I'd throw a couple thoughts out here.

Crickets: Yeah, often times that's all you hear. These games have been out maybe 2 decades and this site is primarily for PBEM organizing...  Not that people don't voice/have opinions but no doubt many of these thing have been discussed many many times before.

Gameplay Rules: So for the enfilading thing, the PDT files dictate how much a column is penalized for being enfiladed for a given scenario.  The default in 1812 at least appears to be 20%.  These can easily be changed to higher if you wish to mod them.  To be "enfiladed" a unit can not be facing a hex where the fire is coming from

As for columns being allowed to melee.  They shouldnt but there are two very separate issues at hand.

1 IF you made attacking in column highly penalized and or forbid it outright, then meleeing off / onto a bridge or thru a gate hexside becomes either almost impossible or literally impossible.  To fix that  would require  even further engine changes that might not even be possible... 

2) Gameplay Style
if you and your opponent do everything that the engine allows then don't expect it to be realistic.  This IMHO is probobly true of most turn-based wargames to some degree but even more so in the JTS black powder games due to their complexity.  (large amount of modifiers, multiple unit stacking, skirmishers, formations etc)

Doctrine of these eras doesnt lend towards easily created rules ( or programming an AI that can use them) that cover EVERY situational happenstance

So, some sort of house rules or a loose understanding of not to do cheesy things by like minded opponents is in order..

How about just agreeing to NEVER attack in column unless a bridge or gate is involved?  An easy addition to this house rule is a  battalions companies must form lime when within 10 hexes of an enemy ( or even more at this scale, after all the doctrine of Frederick the Great's Prussians to change from an approach column to battle line was minimum of 1 mile distance from the enemy!)


As for playing vs the AI, I haven't tested this extensively for this engine, but from my limited observations it appears that the AI like to maneuvuer in column but once it gets close to an enemy it likes to be in line, which is great!

Cheers!

I don't see units in column being enfiladed at all in 1812. I stuck my ass out in one test and the combat result was like I was in line formation with no enfiladed penalty or notification. Saw it in line formation though.
As for attacking in column, a sever penalty would be better. Good point on the bridge crossing. So we need the ability to attack in column but with a heavy penalty?

(09-10-2021, 10:41 PM)_72z Wrote:

(09-10-2021, 11:06 AM)Steel God Wrote: All that said, what specifically do I think is wrong and what do I think it should be?

1). Units in column formation do not get flagged as Enfiladed when fired upon from flank or rear.  They may get the fire modifier for casualties- playing with FOW I can’t be sure - but not getting the morale hit is wrong IMO.  Personally I think units in column that are fired upon from any side should be so flagged, but at the very least they should be flagged when fire comes from rear or flanks.

2). I think units that melee while in column formation should be severely penalized, at least a 50% reduction to combat value since they are engaging on a narrow frontage.  It should be a rare event, usually only against an already weakened foe, or in extremely desperate circumstances that a unit would do it. 

Thanks for listening

No worries: I only really added part of that as a way of addressing the 'market' aspect, not being a factor when it comes to development.

Look, I'll be honest, I don't know that the armies of this period actually did fight in column. I keep thinking of that Pyle painting of Bunker Hill with the British in lines marching up the hill ... I'll tell you what I think I might find - and that is that the British's goal was to march right up that hill and into the redoubt and just push through and send the non-army farmers scrambling. I'd sometimes seen 'column' used to represent formations that were not able to fight in line, and in effect fought in formation that were, more or less, big fat targets as well (which was more about density modifiers, and effective frontage ... how many guys were doing the fighting in a unit ... but I mean, to be fair, that was also for a different period).  

That's part of what I am looking for, as it will help with working out where to direct modifiers; column should probably be a bad idea.

Actually ... you know what, leave it as I suspect that you're on the money with that observation.  I also want to have a look at how the British used their artillery in the battle; things like how mobile were they actually? Did the conditions really allow for that.

-But on a broader point, what I'd been spending some time doing is looking at sources on cavalry.

(09-18-2021, 01:11 AM)Steel God Wrote: PS - Okay I went back and read my original post and I wasn't perhaps as clear as I was in the voices in my head.  But in any event.....not talking about the fire modifier for enfilade, I'm talking about the enfilade flag that drops morale by 2 which is a critical missing component and directly contrary to the Manual.