Armour in Woods or Towns - Printable Version

Armour in Woods or Towns - Printable Version

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RE: Armour in Woods or Towns - Ricky B - 07-15-2023

(07-15-2023, 11:13 AM)Sean Wrote:
(07-14-2023, 06:42 PM)jonnymacbrown Wrote:
(07-13-2023, 01:12 PM)Sean Wrote: Is there any disadvantage for AFVs to be in this heavy terrain?
Do the AFVs gain the full defensive bonus?
And is there any debuff to their attack?

Similarly what about Artillery.
Is it best to place them in Woods/Towns or in the open?

I am playing France40 at present.

One problem in F 40 armor is vehicle losses due to breakdowns. If you can move the armor into a town/village/protected hex in T-mode on a road and then deploy there is no problem with vehicle beakdown. But otherwise; if you move armor into a woods hex and use FULL MOVEMENT you are probably going to lose at least 1 vehicle. Seems like every time you move a French vehicle overland you're going to lose one. However, French armor entrenched in woods is an immoveable object.
I have not noticed this yet.
Only had game for not quite 2 weeks.
It is a problem I noticed a lot in the Squad Battles Series though -I changed Armour Breakdown paramater data there to like 10000 or 20000 to partly solve issue there, AFVs broke down just driving along a normal road. I will look out for it in Panzer Campaigns ,there must be a similar Paramater Data line I can change if I think it is a problem . I like changing the Parameter Data ,I do it a lot.

I did notice the French Tank's resilience in my last game ,had an enemy Char 1B Unit in a Woods/Improved position ,I had to completely destroy them ,they would not retreat from fire or assault it seemed. Finally got them -I think after a round of auto AI fire I do at the end of my turns .I was surprised to see an empty hex where they were. They fought to the last Char 1B.

Note, though, that although we all hate breakdowns, tanks did break down, quite often, simply "driving along a normal road". I read somewhere recently that the Soviet army, by the time it encircled the Germans at Stalingrad, had lost well over half their T34s, and of those lost, at least half were from breakdowns. The games don't come close to replicating breakdown rates like that. if you just want massive battles, go ahead and make breakdowns near 0, but don't think you are simulating history Helmet Rolleyes

RE: Armour in Woods or Towns - jonnymacbrown - 07-15-2023

[quote pid="453304" dateline="1689395919"]
[quote pid="453301" dateline="1689383622"]
That's more than a good point. The game isn't chess. But even in chess we seek economy of force. Getting the most out of armored units entails not moving them freely about. Breakdowns are a key element in economy. That's part of the skill sets that separate the players. Jester

[/quote]

Note, though, that although we all hate breakdowns, tanks did break down, quite often, simply "driving along a normal road". I read somewhere recently that the Soviet army, by the time it encircled the Germans at Stalingrad, had lost well over half their T34s, and of those lost, at least half were from breakdowns. The games don't come close to replicating breakdown rates like that. if you just want massive battles, go ahead and make breakdowns near 0, but don't think you are simulating history Helmet Rolleyes

.
[/quote]

RE: Armour in Woods or Towns - Steel God - 07-16-2023

Agree strongly there. In playing the CGs some folks simply can’t avoid the temptation to move every unit every turn, which in my mind is almost as heinous a crime as constantly fighting your units to the breaking point. Players who tend to view the counters as “people not pixels” tend to perform better in the CGs. Break downs do happen, but a couple of days recovering in reserve also brings them back.

RE: Armour in Woods or Towns - Mr Grumpy - 07-17-2023

Yes, slightly off topic but some players just push and push day and night 24/7 ignoring breakdowns and fatigue and their forces just fall to pieces, a mistake that maybe is not a big factor in small scenarios but a huge factor in campaigns........

RE: Armour in Woods or Towns - ShipwreckedFool - 07-17-2023

This is one reason I really like the scenarios with 30% or higher night move disruption, it forces you to halt your units while giving you the option to squeeze some extra attacks with elite units.

RE: Armour in Woods or Towns - Outlaw Josey Wales - 07-17-2023

I like the Night Disruption. Are all units treated the same or are they Quality Controlled? Maybe A could be 20%, B at 30%, C at 40%, D at 50%, E at 60% and F at 70%. Super Elite like Paratroopers, Commandos and Rangers could be at like AA quality at 10%. There is always a possibility somebody screws up. But, it would only use their quality at the start or what the unit would be considered. Your quality may drop, but, it is not going to cause you to forget your training and experience. Just a thought.

RE: Armour in Woods or Towns - ShipwreckedFool - 07-17-2023

There is a quality adjustment to the night move disruption. Per the manual:

A x1/4 B x1/2 D x3/2 E x2 F x4

RE: Armour in Woods or Towns - Outlaw Josey Wales - 07-18-2023

Well, ok then.

RE: Armour in Woods or Towns - Mr Grumpy - 07-19-2023

But I believe I am correct in saying that the night movement fatigue penalty will be suffered by all units regardless of quality.

So even your elite units will eventually grind to a halt if you move them 24/7.

RE: Armour in Woods or Towns - jonnymacbrown - 07-19-2023

(07-19-2023, 03:37 AM)Mr Grumpy Wrote: But I believe I am correct in saying that the night movement fatigue penalty will be suffered by all units regardless of quality.

So even your elite units will eventually grind to a halt if you move them 24/7.

And it's easier to gain fatigue than to lose it. Big Laugh