(04-21-2020, 01:54 AM)Dan Caviness Wrote: Not trying to stir any pots here but there are recorded instances such as the King Tiger vs. Pershing in whatever that town was...and I'll go out on a limb here and say the Panzer Lehr had more than one Heavy Panzer group attached during the war.  I realize the Lehr fought both British and Yank formations so the when and who of it can be argued, but I believe several were destroyed during the initial bombing phase of Cobra.

Not lookin' for any fights here...feel free to edumacate my ignorant ass...;)

For me it's not all that significant...as the Panther was the better tank by far.
The game recognizes this by the way, it's reflected in their defense values.
Not to mention movement.  The only place the Tiger or King gets their due is with long range firepower, which is pretty spot on IMO.

You'll find a late war scenario often treats those Tigers rather poorly.

(04-21-2020, 11:22 AM)Schwerpunkt75 Wrote:

(04-21-2020, 01:54 AM)Dan Caviness Wrote: Not trying to stir any pots here but there are recorded instances such as the King Tiger vs. Pershing in whatever that town was...and I'll go out on a limb here and say the Panzer Lehr had more than one Heavy Panzer group attached during the war.  I realize the Lehr fought both British and Yank formations so the when and who of it can be argued, but I believe several were destroyed during the initial bombing phase of Cobra.

Not lookin' for any fights here...feel free to edumacate my ignorant ass...;)

For me it's not all that significant...as the Panther was the better tank by far.
The game recognizes this by the way, it's reflected in their defense values.
Not to mention movement.  The only place the Tiger or King gets their due is with long range firepower, which is pretty spot on IMO.

You'll find a late war scenario often treats those Tigers rather poorly.

The original question was about the US Army encountering Tigers in France. Pershings didn't see action until the US Army entered Germany in 1945.

It's unclear if Panzer Lehr brought its Tigers to Normandy; there doesn't appear to be much record of them seeing action if they did. The first confirmed action by Tigers against the Allies was Wittmann's ambush of the 7th Armored near Villers Bocage on June 13. Wittmann belonged to 101st SS Heavy Panzer Battalion.

(04-21-2020, 09:57 PM)Crossroads Wrote:

(04-21-2020, 11:22 AM)Schwerpunkt75 Wrote:

(04-21-2020, 01:54 AM)Dan Caviness Wrote: Not trying to stir any pots here but there are recorded instances such as the King Tiger vs. Pershing in whatever that town was...and I'll go out on a limb here and say the Panzer Lehr had more than one Heavy Panzer group attached during the war.  I realize the Lehr fought both British and Yank formations so the when and who of it can be argued, but I believe several were destroyed during the initial bombing phase of Cobra.

Not lookin' for any fights here...feel free to edumacate my ignorant ass...;)

For me it's not all that significant...as the Panther was the better tank by far.
The game recognizes this by the way, it's reflected in their defense values.
Not to mention movement.  The only place the Tiger or King gets their due is with long range firepower, which is pretty spot on IMO.

You'll find a late war scenario often treats those Tigers rather poorly.

The original question was about the US Army encountering Tigers in France. Pershings didn't see action until the US Army entered Germany in 1945.

It's unclear if Panzer Lehr brought its Tigers to Normandy; there doesn't appear to be much record of them seeing action if they did. The first confirmed action by Tigers against the Allies was Wittmann's ambush of the 7th Armored near Villers Bocage on June 13. Wittmann belonged to 101st SS Heavy Panzer Battalion.

Tiger 1s, in fact. A quick google about the topic revealed - at least to me - an interesting fact that a King Tiger was encountered way more times by the US forces than Tiger 1 was. 

As a sidenote, everyone knows Wittmans last charge I assume, but that was in a Canadian sector so it doesn't count here either. 

A clever question by our Scud: Tiger 1s, versus US troops.

(04-22-2020, 03:22 AM)Schwerpunkt75 Wrote:

(04-21-2020, 09:57 PM)Crossroads Wrote:

(04-21-2020, 11:22 AM)Schwerpunkt75 Wrote:

(04-21-2020, 01:54 AM)Dan Caviness Wrote: Not trying to stir any pots here but there are recorded instances such as the King Tiger vs. Pershing in whatever that town was...and I'll go out on a limb here and say the Panzer Lehr had more than one Heavy Panzer group attached during the war.  I realize the Lehr fought both British and Yank formations so the when and who of it can be argued, but I believe several were destroyed during the initial bombing phase of Cobra.

Not lookin' for any fights here...feel free to edumacate my ignorant ass...;)

For me it's not all that significant...as the Panther was the better tank by far.
The game recognizes this by the way, it's reflected in their defense values.
Not to mention movement.  The only place the Tiger or King gets their due is with long range firepower, which is pretty spot on IMO.

You'll find a late war scenario often treats those Tigers rather poorly.

The original question was about the US Army encountering Tigers in France. Pershings didn't see action until the US Army entered Germany in 1945.

It's unclear if Panzer Lehr brought its Tigers to Normandy; there doesn't appear to be much record of them seeing action if they did. The first confirmed action by Tigers against the Allies was Wittmann's ambush of the 7th Armored near Villers Bocage on June 13. Wittmann belonged to 101st SS Heavy Panzer Battalion.

Tiger 1s, in fact. A quick google about the topic revealed - at least to me - an interesting fact that a King Tiger was encountered way more times by the US forces than Tiger 1 was. 

As a sidenote, everyone knows Wittmans last charge I assume, but that was in a Canadian sector so it doesn't count here either. 

A clever question by our Scud: Tiger 1s, versus US troops.

Did a little more research into this topic. Panzer Lehr gave up its five Tiger IIs (the first production Tiger IIs) prior to the D-Day landings because they had serious mechanical issues. The Tiger IIs ended up at Chateaudun, France, where they ended up confronting U.S. troops in August 1944. But there was no tank vs tank action between these Tigers and U.S. tanks. All five Tigers were abandoned by their crews IVO Chateaudun due to mechanical failures.

What is less clear is the fate of the three Tiger Is that belonged to Panzer Lehr. It's possible that they accompanied Panzer Lehr to Normandy, but there is little documentation about their fate or the actions in which they participated.