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France 14 Offensive Tactics - Printable Version +- Forums (https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards) +-- Forum: The Firing Line (https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards/forumdisplay.php?fid=1) +--- Forum: Tiller Operational Campaigns (https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards/forumdisplay.php?fid=11) +--- Thread: France 14 Offensive Tactics (/showthread.php?tid=74250) |
RE: France 14 Offensive Tactics - jonnymacbrown - 12-29-2020 (12-29-2020, 10:47 AM)NikolaiB Wrote: I mean, the scenario seems pretty well balanced:You are correct Nikolai. Both sides have good chances. jonny 
RE: France 14 Offensive Tactics - jonnymacbrown - 12-29-2020 (12-29-2020, 08:29 AM)squarian Wrote:(12-29-2020, 03:45 AM)jonnymacbrown Wrote: [quote pid="441744" dateline="1609077906"] An example I've already made reference to: Before the Leaves Fall begins at 0600 22 Aug. At that hour, having established the bridgeheads over the Sambre which are the starting position for the scenario, "Buelow hurled three corps" at Lanrezac's 5th Army (all quotes H. Herwig, The Marne, 1914). Buelow's hasty offensive was met by an equally impetuous counterattack, the divisions of Sauret and Defforges charging the "German positions in the early hour mists of 22 August, flags unfurled, bugles blaring, bayonets fixed -- and without artillery support". A second day of fighting (Aug 23) ended at 9.30pm with Lanrezac, "appreciating that he had suffered a major defeat", ordering a general retreat, to begin at 0300 Aug 24. Buelow, at nearly the same hour, ordered the offensive to resume the following morning. In fact, what happened was 48 hours of retreat and pursuit. Two days later on the 26th, as the battle of Le Cateau began on his left, Lanrezac's 5th Army held a front roughly Wassigny (169,138)-la Capelle (194,141)-Watigny (217,150). Buelow's left had passed to the east of Chimay (228,134), about 40 hexes/km south from the outskirts of Charleroi, whence it had gone into action 96 hours earlier. I'm the first to admit that this narrative is lacking in many respects. Without consulting detailed official histories and war diaries, it is not possible from the above to say with certainty how "methodical" the fighting near the Sambre was on Aug 22 and 23. I'd submit, however, that the evidence I've offered makes it unlikely that II Army engaged in anything like a methodical approach - and certainly Gens. Sauret and Defforges did not. Secondly I suspect that against any human player who is not actively attempting to roleplay early-war French offensive doctrine (which is to say, imitating Sauret & Defforges), German II Army is unlikely to duplicate its historical progress Aug 22-26. I empathically acknowledge that I arrive at this surmise on no worthwhile basis of evidence whatsoever, and I'll be very glad to be proven wrong. But as to what I believe to have been the historical offensive approach in 1914, I think the example of the battle of Charleroi speaks for itself. [/quote] I thought Casey Stengel had perfected the art of double-talk but I was wrong! Look, the front from Tournai in the north down to Fort Manonville in the south is 250 miles. The strongest French position is V Armee. So you took some hits. Fall back, re-order, regain some fatigue and pound the enemy position with artillery. Attack somewhere else like in Rossignol, Virton, and Luneville. Turn the French left @ Tournai. Attack the wide-open BEF's right flank. The French can't hold the position @ Givet. There is plenty of room for maneuver all across the board. The game F 14 and First World War Campaigns both accurately reflect the reality of combat in that era; more so than any other wargame out there in my opinion. Just try to figure out how to make the system work and don't think the fault lies with the game's mechanics and the game designer's philosophical approach. It's not easy to figure out and it takes time and heavy losses. Otherwise give it up and try in Eastern Front c. 1941-45 where there are plenty of move & shoot options. jonny 
RE: France 14 Offensive Tactics - ComradeP - 12-30-2020 Repeating history on the operational level isn't always possible. That doesn't mean making the Germans run into a wall between Charleroi and Namur is the only option. As was mentioned earlier, the position of the French Fifth Army is one of the strongest Entente concentrations on the map. A small withdrawal by the French will make it even stronger as the line shortens and forces become more compressed into a narrower space. In such a situation, stacks of 75mm field guns can indeed be quite lethal. But you don't have to fight those stacks. You're the attacker, you have the initiative. You want to attempt a wide flanking move? You can, plenty of turns. You want to attack through the Ardennes? Plenty of turns to reposition forces. You want to attack west from Alsace-Lorraine? You can. Attacking the French Fifth Army head-on isn't the only option, and it's one of the worst options of all the available choices. Try to force the Entente into a situation where they have to respond to your moves, instead of trying a frontal attack into an area that's easy to reinforce for the French. The Entente flank from where the BEF starts to the sea is only held by a few territorial formations, as was mentioned earlier. With the recent patch, Entente rail capacity is greatly limited in the opening stages. The French will have to do a lot of marching to get any kind of sizeable force into that area. All the Germans have to do is follow the primary roads south-west from their starting position in Belgium. The territorial formations can't take any kind of sustained beating, being E quality. As to strong Entente field gun stacks: French field artillery isn't all that numerous, though it might look like that. French infantry divisions only have 36 field guns in 3 units. Corps RAC units have 4x12 guns. They might have great stats, but they're not made for a battle of attrition. Field gun losses won't be replaced in the early campaign. Their capability to resist assaults is also limited. You have a fair number of B quality units/formations in Belgium and A quality Guards. If you want to force a decision, use those to attack after some other units draw fire. As suggested by others, you could use "suicide battalions" or cavalry/bicycle companies to draw fire. Also note that, though direct fire hurts a lot, you have 12 battalions in each division. Your division is perfectly combat capable if 3 or 4 battalions become fatigued. French infantry suffers pretty murderous losses when stacked, and even if they're not stacked the lower defence stat is a problem. Yes, you can launch painful assaults as the French, but if there happen to be a few German machinegun units around, you'll pay dearly for it. One of the biggest mistakes you can make in FWWC is playing it like PzC. You have to think less in terms of individual units and more in terms of formations. So no "these battalions have taken a hit" but "is this division combat capable?" Difficult though it might be, accept that some formations will be thoroughly burned out by the end of the campaign or even the first week. Park them somewhere and they'll be back in action after a few days. As is the case in PzC, fatigue tends to be more important to keep an eye on than losses. Losses are replaced quickly in France '14. |
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