Bulge 16.01s alt - Printable Version

Bulge 16.01s alt - Printable Version

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RE: Bulge 16.01s alt - Ricky B - 10-23-2015

(10-23-2015, 06:19 AM)Plain Ian Wrote:
(10-23-2015, 03:08 AM)ComradeP Wrote: I'm not sure, it's one of those things that you would expect everybody to know, but in practice most people don't or have forgotten.

Initially I also thought the number of casualties was the primary modifier for how likely a unit was to disrupt, but that's not the case as far as I know either. Firing more often can result in more disruptions than firing as a stack. When firing as a stack, your main advantage is less return fire.

For losses inflicted I think its raw attacking strength that is the factor. All the units attacking strengths are added up, then modified then this is used to generate the loss inflicted. Whether this gives the same effect of each unit indivdually firing I don't know?

I'm not the best reader of the manual and although I've played PzC on and off for quite a few years I've always thought that the Disruption test was based on casualties as some kind of % of total unit strength. So if you have 10 casualties out of 100 thats 10% and you'd roll based on that? 1 man would be 1% and you would roll on the 1% column so to speak. All modified by Morale etc.

So I guess do you make the defender roll once on the 10% column or roll multiple times on lower columns for each individual unit? However if you chose the second option you do risk triggering opportunity fire.

I'm sure someone will check over whats being said and make corrections. Either that or I'll read the manual......

Fire by a stack of units is still resolved unit by unit, NOT as a combined fire value. You can see this by turning off on map results, and the dialog will show each unit firing and causing losses. The big advantage over firing one at a time is all get to fire before any defensive fire - and the stack may trigger opp fire to the same level as a single unit firing, so it may reduce defensive return fire but I am not sure, there may be more defensive fire against a stack? Still I will fire a stack all at once for my sanity more so than to gain any advantage, as firing a stack of 4 units can be 3 combined shots, or 12 separate shots, and I just don't have the patience to go through 12 shots.

And actually there is a disadvantage to combined shots, although with delayed disruption reporting it was very limited. But by firing a single unit at a time, the shots can be spread against more defenders, and that would result in at least a chance of more defender disruptions that 3 combined shots would give. Without delayed disruption reporting, after each shot the fire can be directed at a different target if disruption occurs.

Rick

RE: Bulge 16.01s alt - Mr Grumpy - 10-23-2015

Two things I love about FWWC, fire at a opponents stack cannot be directed at a particular unit and stacking density is taken into account for losses, so huge attacking stacks can be decimated by defensive fire (as well as overstacked defensive stacks).

I agree the effects of isolation are too severe straight away, a staged effect would have been a far better approach, however knowing that the effects are so severe the lesson should be never allow your forces to become isolated, too many players simply refuse to retreat and pay the consequences. Wink

RE: Bulge 16.01s alt - Plain Ian - 10-24-2015

Turn 58 - Werbomont area

[Image: 2015-10-23_16h36_37.png]

As you can see he reinforced all along the line.

18th VGD Pioneers moved to protect his 75mm A/TG's which undisrupted from last turn and knocked out a tank. He must hate the British as the 8th Rifles was the target (again) for Werfers. It disrupted but recovered. Stiff upper lips chaps!

116th grenadiers and another Bn of the 18th VGD moved up to support his disrupted 18th VGD Bn.

Yet another Bn of the 560th moved to Bra to make that untouchable while he continues digging in there.

His strong stack in the south ENTRENCHED in Forest now feels comfortable to fire and disrupted the 309th. However the 309th recovered.

I think his 116th armour is still in the region indicated.

RE: Bulge 16.01s alt - Plain Ian - 10-24-2015

Turn 58 German - Grandmenil

[Image: 2015-10-23_17h17_46.png]

9th SS has arrived and things look grim. Not only do I have to get the trapped units out but I have to start digging in to survive.

I think I will only get one shot at shiffting his 9th SS unit or removing the AA Flak unit. I'll probably have to go for both. I've just realised looking at the picture that assaulting the AA unit with 1-333rd may be the best option. Luckily 2 Bn of artillery are available.

Edit: Addition. A move I didn't comment about was Cesar moving the 560th VGD HQ to support his disrupted unit. Its another sound PzC move. When you have a disrupted unit then its easy prey to assault. So he has moved up the HQ to help defend. I'm not sure my AC unit would have remained undisrupted after its assault attempt but i guess he wanted to hold the hex. HQ's tend to be pretty tough units in the game. I'm not sure why because there is nothing coded I think to make them tough? But for some reason they always seem to take lower losses and survive assaults better?

RE: Bulge 16.01s alt - Nitram Draw - 10-24-2015

It looks like if you move the 3/335 due south you break the isolation unless he moves units to put a zoc in the clear hex south of the ac/2hcr. Not if you can do that, or want to, or if it survives the move.

RE: Bulge 16.01s alt - Plain Ian - 10-24-2015

(10-24-2015, 04:42 AM)Nitram Draw Wrote: It looks like if you move the 3/335 due south you break the isolation unless he moves units to put a zoc in the clear hex south of the ac/2hcr. Not if you can do that, or want to, or if it survives the move.

Sounds good. I 've looked and you are right.

Pulling 1-333rd back also ensures it will regain supply as he will be moving into Forest and cannot do much, not even fire. 1-333rd will suffer with artillery fire in Clear but at least its back in supply. It would be nice to try to hold the hex with the 1-333rd but its going to cost.

I guess the assaults then become optional and I could just fire although I think the 2-333rd must win if I hit the AA unit 4 times with artillery.

RE: Bulge 16.01s alt - Plain Ian - 10-24-2015

German Turn 58 - La Roche

[Image: 2015-10-23_20h47_00.png]

Not much to see. I moved the unit which was on Patrol so cannot see if the German Pioneer is still there. It will be. I suspect that he will have it Digging and Patrolling so will see the unit over the river NW of La Roche. The unit in T mode will be hidden I hope.

Looking at his 9th SS units at Baraque I'd say he still has 3+ Bn's worth of infantry and possibly more armour as I'm not sure the strength of his XX armoured units? They might be in the Nadrin area just off map to the right if you follow the secondary road?

Not really sure what I'm doing here. I don't think I need a diversion and I don't want to lose men/units in an unecessary move.

RE: Bulge 16.01s alt - Plain Ian - 10-24-2015

German Turn 58 - Bastogne

[Image: 2015-10-23_20h49_52.png]

It was relatively quiet here. The only thing I detected was he reinforced Group A with a 26th VGD Bn.

One of my 155mm Artillery Bn's was targeted for counterbattery fire and I guess I will have to move it.

His tanks up at Bertogne continue to be a pain but at least both my adjacent groups ahave dug in to IMPROVED. I'll dig in again this turn.

Cesar has emailed to say that we shouldn't build BUNKERS. I will reduce my only BUNKER opposite his Group A to Bunker. I guess he means I move out then back in. The Spanish are gentlemen and I trust that he won't move in when I move out. Being Scottish I trust everyone.

RE: Bulge 16.01s alt - Plain Ian - 10-24-2015

German Turn 58 Sibret area

[Image: 2015-10-23_21h47_17.png]

Well here’s the action from Sibret.

As far as I can see Group A is still attempting to dig in.

He spotted my advance and sent every armoured unit he had to fire and spot for artillery. Group B. The 3-501st was chosen.

His 2nd SS PzGr unit targeted the 818th and demolished 2 tanks for the loss of 4 men. I’m a bit amazed about this as the 818th is in Clear/IMPROVED and should have been easy meat for him? Even a VGD Bn could have done that?

The big surprise was that his other 2nd SS infantry unit did nothing against the D/735TNK????

His 5th FJD Bn group (+ Pioneer XXX) did however do damage to the 2-328th.

Now when I pulled back the 1-328th I didn't think too much about it as I just wanted the T mode unit out of the front line. However I've exposed 3-318th. He has decided to exploit this and has advance a motley bunch of units. Group C. These found the 1-328th retreating which meant they came under fire again.

He has also moved the disrupted 5th FJD Bn to reinforce the 9th SS Recon (Group E) and made room for fresh units Group D.

So the end result is the 3-318th is cut off and I need a rescue plan........I’ll think I’ll make this a separate post.

Oh lastly I can see yet another SS artillery unit within 2-3 hexes of the front line? What is it with these units?

RE: Bulge 16.01s alt - Plain Ian - 10-24-2015

Sibret conundrum

So what do I do to get the 3-318th out? Do I go for immediate rescue or attempt a two turn rescue?

One turn
[Image: 2015-10-23_22h33_46.png]

Well the poor 1-328th at Chaumont can reach the hex according to the Reachable Hexes button so I assume it goes by the path shown. It cannot unlimber so must sit there. this allows the 3-318th to pull back.

Worth it?