Tips from the Frontline - Printable Version

Tips from the Frontline - Printable Version

+- Forums (https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards)
+-- Forum: The Firing Line (https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards/forumdisplay.php?fid=1)
+--- Forum: Combat Mission (https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards/forumdisplay.php?fid=10)
+---- Forum: CM AAR/DAR Forums (https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards/forumdisplay.php?fid=35)
+---- Thread: Tips from the Frontline (/showthread.php?tid=43128)

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7

RE: Tips from the Frontline - RNL Tiger - 12-01-2007

Attack failed miserably

• Sniper will hopefully knockout the 20mm flak
The 20mm remained hidden and so the sniper did not get his chance to kill the crew.

• 82mm mortar has been peppering the trees just behind the flag for a couple of turns for the same reason and will now start to fire into the area of the panzers [I don’t know how effective that will be but I will find out soon]. The purpose is to provide a distraction for my lone tank on the right…

This did not seem to have any impact and so I will not bother trying to distract medium/heavy tanks with 82mm mortar again. I guess that tactic would be much more successful against light vehicles.

• T34 will come in from the right flank and will hopefully engage the five panzers one at a time rather than two or three together. It is a risky approach but my infantry are also depending on it…

My T34 hunts forward and rather than engaging just one or two seems to have stirred up the whole hornet’s nest of centre panzers and the smaller group behind them too. The T34 bravely tries to attack and fires a couple of shots that only hit the dirt but it is not long before the tank is knocked out. “Yes the T-34 fired twice so he certainly had his chance, but the odds (6 panzers and a Hetzer, were against him) So it now looks like your Stalins must take centre stage and win it for you”

[Image: T34KO.jpg]

You can also see the squad darting across the open space to the flag.

• SU-76M has been bombarding the outside flag for the last couple of turns to soften up the defense

I thought the SU would continue to bombard the defense and I had shifted its fire to what I thought would be the location of supporting Axis infantry waiting in ambush in the second set of scattered trees. However, for some reason the SU stopped firing and I am speculating when I say that I think it was because I targeted the spotted marker rather than ground near it. That little mistake would cost my squad their lives…

• 2 platoons will attack the outside flag, 1 squad will go across the open ground and be relying on the T34 and mortar to provide enough distraction for the panzers to not be cut down by their machine guns. The other squads will be ready to fire into the area of the flag and kill any defenders clustered around the flag

The attack progresses and an Axis squad runs away in the face of superior firepower but the Axis infantry on the far right in ambush were not suppressed as they should have been by the SU-76M and eliminate the advance squad. The tanks having eliminated the T34 are starting to turn their attention to supporting their infantry and laying down suppressing fire:

[Image: InfantryAttack.jpg]

Clearly there is too much open ground for the infantry to cross when 5 panzers are guarding it. This really leaves the flag occupied by the Axis forces and whilst the Axis infantry has been bloodied they will rally soon and return to the flag. The SU-76M is running low on ammunition; it cannot forced out the Axis infantry alone and it has no hope against the panzers. T34 will no longer influence the course of events so it is now down to the last two Stalin tanks for the Allies to have any hope of turning the tide.

• Stalin tanks will rush back to the village and hopefully do better at the shorter ranges. Of course they will be more vulnerable too but that is an acceptable risk

I had looked at the map and decided that the Stalin would not get LOS from this position as the LOS went through the thickest part of the woods. However, I clearly misjudged the depth of cover and both Stalin tanks get LOS to the panzers. Unfortunately this is a missed opportunity and the few shots they take are harmless [as usual]. It would have helped the tanks if I had interspersed a hunt command with their movement orders but I didn’t and so a golden chanced to hit the panzers in the side passes by:

[Image: StalingetsLOS.jpg]

The Stalin tanks proceed into the village, where defensive smoke has been laid down. As the Stalin emerges through the smoke, with the second one close behind, it is engaged and knocked out at just over 200m by a Panzer IVH:

[Image: StalinKO.jpg]

The second Stalin arrives on the scene. The Panzer IVH fires first but the shell ricochets harmlessly and in return the Stalin delivers swift retribution in the form of a knockout blow at the front turret’s weak point:

[Image: PanzerIVHKO.jpg]

The Allied attack has reached its zenith and is now petering out. The Allied success was in displacing the infantry around the outside flag but that success cannot be exploited due to the panzers in over-watch. The T34 made a brave attempt but succumbed to the overwhelming odds. The Stalin tanks have had to come in close and one was knocked out before it could even fire a round. The second Stalin knocked out the offending Panzer IVH but is now against 7 Panzer IVHs and 1 Hetzer; not even the most optimistic person can believe that the Stalin has a chance. However, it is worse than that as the last Stalin doesn’t even put up a fight and dies ignominiously in retreat.

[Image: StalinKO2.jpg]

“Your last Stalin was hopeless, he just had clear shots at my tanks but never fired and actually retreated! I rarely buy Stals for 3 reasons - firstly they're expensive, secondly they're slow and lumbering with long reload times and slow turret-traverse, and thirdly cheaper faster T-34/85's pack almost as big a punch.”

The battle has been decided; the question remaining now is how big the defeat will be… First of all the Axis forces need to consolidate the flags again [Unknown and Allied] and possibly destroy a few more Allied forces before bringing things to an end.

[Image: Flags.jpg]

So now the Allies are in retreat to save their lives and concede probably a major defeat.

RE: Tips from the Frontline - RNL Tiger - 12-01-2007

Result

So, it’s all over now and the Allies have suffered a Major Defeat:

[Image: Result.jpg]

RE: Tips from the Frontline - RNL Tiger - 12-01-2007

Evaluation of performance

From the original AAR I had noted some tips:
• Armour – must be selected to match its strengths and weaknesses to the battle conditions, especially the terrain and weather. Exploit the armour fully in both its key functions during a meeting engagement: knocking out enemy armour and blasting the enemy infantry. In using armour to attack enemy armour try to determine where all of the enemy armour is to prevent unwanted surprises

I selected the armour based on the slightly more open terrain and in particular I tried to exploit the strengths, strong armour and powerful gun, of the Stalin tank. However, my attempt to exploit these strengths was frustrated by the poor spotting and gunnery that the Stalin tanks demonstrated during this battle. I made more use of HE against infantry by purchasing and using the SU-76M and I also used HE area-fire against enemy armour just out of LOS. I also chose to split the armour onto the left and right flank and that had the desired effect of keeping the Axis armour looking in two directions but it must be said that the execution of the tactics left a little to be desired when movement orders did not exploit the terrain properly. I am undecided as to whether I should have kept all of the tanks together or at least on the same flank… “If there's just one piece of advice I'd give to anybody it’s - operate your tanks in packs. Think simple mathematical odds all the time in CM and always confront enemy tank groups with a bigger group or you don't stand a chance unless your tanks are better. You split into 2 groups of 2 tanks each to attack my bigger groups so the odds were against you. I'd have kept a tight group of 5 (2xStals, 2x T-34s and an SU) because a 5-tank group packs quite a punch. But instead you sent a single T-34 on a suicide mission over the hill and he was cut to pieces by my group, he had no chance. You could have sent the SU-76 over with him as a 'fighting pair' to improve the odds slightly. Your later Stalin attack was better, they attacked as a tight pair, I clubbed one to death with a flurry of partial pens but his mate killed a panzer in return. See, if you have a group of at least 2 tanks it means a buddy will usually survive to give payback.”

• Infantry – mass sufficient infantry firepower to attack a single point and win the fire-fight, usually a 2-1 or greater advantage is needed. Spreading the infantry too thinly across the map means that they are tactically dispersed and consequently weaker. It is also harder to manoeuvre them into new positions once the engagement has started, which makes their initial deployment and movement all the more important

I deliberately kept the infantry force together and this was even more important given that I could only purchase a single Company given my other choices. I decided to attack the outside flag with two platoons rather than one and also combined that with artillery preparation via the SU-76M. This was done deliberately to gain a numerical advantage, hopefully 2-1 infantry and to soften up the defence first with an artillery barrage. The attack was successful but could not be exploited given the armour situation

• Tactics – test any changes to the plan by asking why is the plan being changed and is it better than the original plan. As in chess, any move has its strengths and weaknesses is the balance right. Flanking moves that are made with surprise in mind must be especially tested because if the movement is observed then there is no surprise. Achieving coordination between infantry units and between infantry and armour is difficult. Take time to prepare the engagement by getting into the right positions and to get the timing right about when to initiate the fight. Without that preparation the attack is more likely to be piecemeal and defeated in detail

I felt that I had made much better use of tactics. First, in trying to win the armour fight; second in setting a trap; third in redeploying armour to both the left and right flank [with the same caveat as above]; fourth in massing infantry for the attack

• Miscellaneous - always check the battlefield carefully for spotted enemy units and results of engagements, there may have units that can be saved or redeployed. If needed, test the armour or a unit’s expected performance in the Scenario Editor

I made a slight oversight in that I missed the soft ground until after I had moved my armour forward but fortunately I did not land them in any bogs. I did notice some gaps in the tree cover and my Stalin tanks in particular should have bagged more Axis armour. The fact they did not was down to chance in war and not any tactical mistakes that I am aware of. [Whilst their behaviour was somewhat strange I am assigning it to: poor spotting and Allied crews thinking HE was enough to kill a Panzer IV and so saving the AP for something harder. I still have no idea why it moved forward when engaged - I assume a temporary loss of LOS]

I made two bad mistakes on LOS and each time it cost me a tank. The first lost was a T34 after the initial engagement and where the LOS was blocked by the burning tank. However, what was not blocked was the LOS at the side of the road and when my tank reversed through that it got hit. The second time was just on the reverse slope of the crest of a hill and the T34 stopped just right for a panzer to execute it. Both mistakes were entirely avoidable if more care was taken when moving armour and checking for LOS. I made another LOS mistake when rushing the Stalin tanks into the village because they had LOS onto the Panzers behind the woods in the centre. If they had hunted at that point they may have bagged a couple of Panzers

RE: Tips from the Frontline - RNL Tiger - 12-01-2007

More tips from the frontline

As before, POS is a mine of useful information, which has been captured in this thread. I am sure that there will be people who can read these two AARs and learn from it – as I have done. There are some things that I especially need to remember to do:
• Check for LOS when moving, especially armour, and if in doubt then assume the enemy does have LOS. I lost a T34 at the start when reversing off the road and again another one just behind the crest of hill. In both cases I had assumed that there was not LOS to either tank and was wrong on both occasions; two very expensive mistakes
• Check for LOS especially for keyholes through sparse cover, my Stalin heading to the road got a shot at the Hetzer through just such a gap. Checking this LOS also includes noting height as well as you may see over cover such as scattered trees. If the cover looks like it might block LOS but there is a chance it may not then throw in a hunt in between your “fast” or other movement command as that may exploit an unexpected [and pleasant] opportunity
• Check the terrain carefully for both fire positions and alternative fire positions, my T34s covered the centre but the wet ground made it dangerous to move forward without risking the tank bogging and becoming a sitting duck
• Check for opportunities for area-fire as it is a useful tactic if just out of LOS, my Stalin area fired against three Panzers and gun damaged one of them

One final tip from POS: “Another point worth mentioning - although I demolished a small house with area-fire on top of your occupant near the other big flag, there's no guarantee occupants will be injured or killed, they may well survive and stay in the rubble which incidentally is excellent cover. However, a large two-storey building or church WILL hurt occupants quite severely if its demolished, in fact it sometimes pays to deliberately let an opponent stuff the place with inf, then collapse it on top of them with area fire.(insert maniacal laughter emoticon here) As I always say - they pose no threat if they're mush.”

Well, that meeting engagement too has finished; learnt some more lessons; so now it is time to enter the cauldron of war yet again.

RE: Tips from the Frontline - McIvan - 12-01-2007

Superb tutorial AAR as usual, well done :) I can see you are learning the hard way, but very quickly. It's the best way to learn, as long as you don't get discouraged.......you'll quickly be up there competing with the veterans.

Rate of Fire is a big factor in tank v tank actions. The second shot is much more likely to hit than the first, and so on. IS-IIs are slow firers, which puts them at a disadvantage. They tend to be more suited to "shoot and scoot" orders....exchange one shot apiece and retreat while you reload...if you can manage it. The T34/85s are the usual tank killers in the Soviet army.

82mm mortars are useless against armour. They can knock out armoured cars/halftracks with a direct hit, but that happens very seldom.

I know POS thinks you should have more armour and less infantry in a battle, but I would recommend you have a little more points in infantry and artillery. Try keeping some of your armour hidden and committing it only once you know where his armour is.

RE: Tips from the Frontline - Der Kuenstler - 12-01-2007

Great job with the AAR - best I've seen.

As you are starting to realize, once you've let your opponent swipe the flags first in a ME, it's dang near impossible to get him out, no matter how "good" you are, because you've put your troops in a situation where they have to try to attack an enemy at rest in cover, yet you don't have the extra points worth of attacking units to do it successfully with like in an attack or assault battle. The points are still even. The only way you can win that way is to knowingly buy a lot of HE ahead of time (like 150mm) knowing you will let him have the flags first, then blast him out, but even that doesn't work sometimes. I would practice getting to the key flags FIRST and then see how much easier it is. As a priority - mass your resources and try to get MOST of the flags (the easy ones that favor YOUR approach) and then if you can win the firefight, the flags will cancel each other out and you'll win the game.

RE: Tips from the Frontline - Ratzki - 12-02-2007

Great DAR! I agree with McIvan, you gotta lean to the side of more infantry. I find armour, due to it's nature, more of a YAHOO!! / OHH CRUDD!! unit. Mostly due to the fact that it is either in play or dead, there is no in between. Infantry on the other hand can absorb damage and continue to fight on even after taking some serious casualties.
Der K. brings up a good point as well, in that if you don't get to the flag first, you had better be prepared to dig the other guy out. This means some form of HE to soften the enemy up, smomething with smoke for the inevidible open ground crossing, your infantry arriving at the jump off point in good order so no time is wasted, and a good plan "A" because things are gonna be tense for a few turns and you have to know what you are doing as well as a good plan "B" and "C" as well as "D".
Agrain, great write up, looking forward to the next one.

RE: Tips from the Frontline - RNL Tiger - 12-06-2007

Introduction

This third quick battle with PoorOldSpike [POS] is a 1250 point attack and defense on a medium map in 1944. As before, I have decided to keep it with the other “Tips from the Frontline” because the intent is the same, the style is similar and the material adds to the original two AARs.

This is my first QB based on an attack/defense battle and it is also my first introduction to purchasing and deploying fortifications. The dynamics of the battle are a little different as I am in possession of the flags and need to defend them against a superior force. The attack has 150% of the points of the defender i.e. 1875.

POS agreed to the QB with some conditions: “Okay but like I said, 80% of players (including me) rarely touch Attack/Defends because of the boredom factor but if we keep it a small 1250-pointer it'll move faster, otherwise it'll be a big stodgy slow-moving affair. I suggest Aug 44 again because we'll get balanced units. Same params as before except heavy trees this time, and 20+ turns and we'll have to limit fortifications or the attacker will never get through a sea of mines and roadblocks especially in heavy terrain. So I suggest a maximum of 1 AT-mine, 1 roadblock, 1 anti-personnel mine, 6 wires and unlimited anything else in the Fort category. And I'll limit my arty barrages to just one. PS another thing about Attacks, the defender wins most of the time, that’s another reason I don't like 'em”

As before, POS’s comments will be quoted in a different colour.

PS I had recently started two QBs with raz_atoth with both attack and defense and we had not agreed any fortification restrictions. So somewhat late, as I had already made the purchases by then, I mentioned to him whether we should agree fortification levels and his response was: “And, about the fortifications restriction: I don't think they'll be needed. And I'm telling this for at least 2 reasons:
1)It's quite a wide map, and as many fortifications one of us might bought, he won't be able to cover the entire map-or at least significant areas.
2)You might not be aware of this, but there is a cmbb bug regarding fortifications. I believe it was fixed in cmak but I'm not 100% positive. Basically, "static" fortifications like-trenches/mines/barbed wire-are automatically counted as casualties. So, if you buy - let's say-barbed wire worth 100 points - I will at the end score 100 pts, even if you didn't technically 'lost' them. So, this pretty much acts as a restriction for most players.”

RE: Tips from the Frontline - RNL Tiger - 12-06-2007

Purchase Phase

I knew that for a defense I wanted plenty of ATG and HMGs and a selection of fortifications. However, I wasn’t really sure of what to buy or how effective any of them really are. So, in the best traditions of ignorance I pretty much just bought what POS had mentioned plus a couple of trenches because I had seen them elsewhere. I ignored the TRP because I didn’t have any artillery except for a mortar spotter.

I hadn’t even asked the question about blocking off the map with fortifications but POS had done a little research “I just did an estimate of how many AT-mines/roadblocks you'd need to completely block off the map to traffic and I make it about 30, which would cost you only 120 points (peanuts) for 30 daisy-chain AT-mines, or cost more if you mix buried AT-mines and roadblocks in with them. You had a Fort allowance of 250 pts in our 1250pt-sized game (you get more allowance with bigger games), so you could have bought 63 daisies to create a dense Alamein-type minefield that'd have stopped the enemy armour in its tracks if we'd hadn't set a limit. That's why CM players have to agree on strict limits. Below are screenshots of our map, each white square is where a mine or roadblock could have gone to completely close off the map by blocking the gaps.

As for wire, its dirt cheap, hence the need for purchase limits there too or enemy infantry will spend the whole game crawling through deep ranks upon ranks of it. And only full-tracked and half-tracked vehs can cross it, which means wheeled vehs are stopped dead by it.”

[Image: block1.jpg]

It was only after we had exchanged a few game files that I thought that I should have asked this question first! “If you were playing this defence what fortifications would you choose and why?” “First I'd try to talk my opponent into playing a ME instead because I don't like A/D's, but if I was defender I'd spend to the hilt on roadblocks (15 pts apiece) because they're absolutely impassable to tanks and can't be removed in any way, I'd string them across the map to plug as many gaps between patches of woods, buildings, swamps and rough ground as possible.

Second choice would be buried AT-mines (12 pts each) but they're not as reliable as r/blocks because they can be lifted by engineers unless the engineers come under fire.

Third choice are daisies (4 pts each), I know they sit in full view on top of the ground but they nevertheless act as a powerful deterrent and no tank commander would risk driving through them, he'd have to lift them which would cost him time, and they're very, very cheap.

Anti-personnel mines (7 pts each) are useful but I wouldn't go overboard on them, maybe half-a-dozen.

I'd probably buy half-a-dozen wires too (5 pts each) but they're very low in my priorities because you need lots to create an effective infantry barrier and I'd rather spend on MG's which are a much more effective 'barrier'.

Trenches (10 pts each) are also low in my priorities because they can be seen by the enemy from about 200 metres in all terrain and therefore draw area-fire like moths to a flame. However I'd usually buy at least a couple and leave them empty just to divert the enemy into wasting time, effort and ammo firing at them or avoiding them.

Bunkers and pillboxes (various costs) I rarely buy because - like trenches - they can be seen from miles away and plastered. And although they look tough on paper, their slits have zero armour so they'll quickly die if you put a hail of even small-calibre tank fire their way because sooner or later the shells will begin flying through the slit.

Target Reference Points (9 pts each) I'd hardly bother with because the cash is wasted if the enemy is nowhere near them.

(PS - all the prices above might vary by a point or two depending on nationality and period)"

However, I hadn’t asked that question but if I had I would have made some different choices. Unfortunately, I had decided to purchase the following units before seeing this advice and so I was already committed:
• 1 x Company
• 1 x Platoon
• 2 x Panzer IVH
• 2 x Sharpshooters
• 3 x 75mm ATG
• 2 x HMG
• 1 x AT Mine, 1 x AP mine, 5 x wire, 2 x trenches

I was also surprised when I saw my purchases as I had thought I had bought six machine guns but as always you need to adapt to the situation. I am also starting to appreciate that a battle can be won or lost [or made difficult] based on force selection, for example
1) Here I should have had more HMGs and a better selection of fortifications and probably more ATGs rather than the tanks
2) Recently for a QB combined arms battle I bought an 88mm Pak43; although it was very expensive I was pleased with its punching power, until I realized that I couldn’t move it out of the setup area
3) I bought 4 x SPW 251/9 assault half-tracks with the intention of carrying a reserve platoon to a critical point or a flag. I only found out on map that they couldn’t carry squads
4) I bought a mortar spotter in preference to three mortar teams because of the higher ammunition load, but when I used it I found it needed the higher ammunition load because the fire was spread over a much wider area

Now of course, none of these choices are fatal and indeed they may be the right choice in the right circumstances but I had bought them based on various assumptions, which proved incorrect. Buying the wrong tools for the job is not a good start.

RE: Tips from the Frontline - RNL Tiger - 12-06-2007

Setup Phase

The setup of the defense by necessity of limited forces needs to make choices about how to defend the flags. It seems that generally there are three key approaches:
• Strong point - concentrate forces into one or more chosen fire-sacks and by definition leave other parts of the defended area with either light defense or none at all
• Line - deploy forces more widely to defend a greater area but with less concentrated firepower
• Combination of strong point and line using concepts such as defense in depth where a forward line screens the main line of resistance

Each approach can operate with or without a mobile reserve, which provides additional options for a counter-attack or to shore up defenses.

Looking at the map there are three main avenues into the flags:
• Left – road into the village and also heavily wooded
• Centre – road straight into the village
• Right – terrain contains water and various tree cover but less heavy than the left

[Image: Terrain.jpg]

The left is clearly not good tank country and leaves the centre and the right as the two likely axes of attack. I will be facing a superior number of forces and POS is bound to have a good proportion of his points spent on armour. That is a sure recipe for overwhelming one or two ATGs so it seems that the sensible option is to go for a strong point defense. The choice now is where to form that strong point - in the centre or on the right, as I do not have enough forces to setup two strong points. It seems that the most sensible choice is to set it up in the centre as this deployment allows the centre to remain strong and for units to move both left and right. If the ATGs are setup on the right and the Allied tanks come into the centre then at best I might have one or two ATGs that could hit the centre and they would be easily overwhelmed. If the attack comes down the right then I will not be well setup to repulse the attackers but equally they will need to come across the centre to get to the other flags. So, I deploy as follows:
• Sharpshooters to the front and left to provide “eyes”
• 1 platoon just behind the village in the woods with an HMG
• 1 platoon at the two small flags in the centre/left with an HMG
• 1 platoon at the two large flags on the hill in the centre/right
• 1 platoon and two Panzers held in reserve behind the hill
• AT and AP mines placed in centre village along with some wire
• Some wire and a trench each on the left and right
• 81mm mortar spotter overlooks the centre

[Image: Defense.jpg]

The centre fire sack closer up looks like this with 75mm ATGs at 1-3 and the 81mm mortar spotter at 4:

[Image: Defense2.jpg]

The ATG at “1” can cover the village but not the left; the ATGs at “2” and “3” can cover the centre but have very limited ability to shoot to the right. So their strong point is the centre but they are very vulnerable to infantry coming from the right or left.

The setup went smoothly until I tried to use the trench so a question to POS: “When I tried during the setup to place units into a trench "place" never seemed to recognise the trench when a unit was placed over it. I never got any indication on how to do it.” “Just go to 'Key 6' top-down view of the trench and put infantry and guns in it using your eyeball even though there's no readout saying 'trench' during the setup phase. But when the game begins click on a unit in a trench and it'll say 'Trench' in its data at the bottom of the screen. Warning - if you place trenches in pavement or hard roads, you'll find they disappear when the game begins, it's the program’s way of belatedly saying 'no trenches allowed in concrete'” So, given that minor problem with the trenches I decided to place them in the front - empty, with the knowledge that they would at least draw fire as I knew they would be easily spotted. An attacker can’t really take the risk of approaching a trench without laying down some suppressing fire just in case it is occupied.

Well the defender’s job is done, choices made, forces deployed and now it is time to wait and see what happens…