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The Competition & Teaser Thread - Printable Version +- Forums (https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards) +-- Forum: The Firing Line (https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards/forumdisplay.php?fid=1) +--- Forum: Panzer Battles (https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards/forumdisplay.php?fid=280) +--- Thread: The Competition & Teaser Thread (/showthread.php?tid=65518) |
RE: The Competition & Teaser Thread - 76mm - 02-13-2014 (02-12-2014, 05:24 PM)ComradeP Wrote: To me it seems likely that the Tank Corps with the Guards Tank Regiment attached is the 18th, as it's the only non-Guards unit I can find that had a Guards Tank Regiment attached during the entirety of the operations. Doesn't the picture in Post #475 in the link below clearly show that it is the 18th Tank Corps? https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards/showthread.php?tid=65518&page=48 RE: The Competition & Teaser Thread - ComradeP - 02-13-2014 There are no divisional markings in that picture, and even though I can't find a reference to another regular Tank Corps in the area having a Guards (Heavy) Tank Regiment, that doesn't automatically mean none had any. There's no 100% certainty until we see it, but I would be surprised if that isn't 18th Tank Corps and the majority of the rest of 5th Guards Tank Army together with supporting units. RE: The Competition & Teaser Thread - Kuriltai - 02-13-2014 -I don't think post #475 is connected with the scenario in question... -At the bottom-left of the map there is an example of primary road(I assume) reinforcing my belief that we were mistaking the elevated RR for primary road. -Regarding the loose Guards unit at the top of the map,I'm thinking if the date is July 8th (or perhaps earlier yet),5GTArmy would not be on the scene yet.(Maybe 48GTR? Is it a Hvy Regt for sure?) RE: The Competition & Teaser Thread - Aaron - 02-13-2014 You guys are funny. Are you sleeping at night..... RE: The Competition & Teaser Thread - Kuriltai - 02-13-2014 Quote:You guys are funny. Are you sleeping at night..... Its worse than you think...I am trying to read three different books on the Liri Valley and trying to work on this enigma at the same time... Taking Aspirin buy the handful... 
RE: The Competition & Teaser Thread - 76mm - 02-13-2014 (02-13-2014, 04:49 AM)ComradeP Wrote: There are no divisional markings in that picture, and even though I can't find a reference to another regular Tank Corps in the area having a Guards (Heavy) Tank Regiment, that doesn't automatically mean none had any. There's no 100% certainty until we see it, but I would be surprised if that isn't 18th Tank Corps and the majority of the rest of 5th Guards Tank Army together with supporting units. But the HQ unit is clearly labelled "HQ 18th Tank Corps", and 18th Tank Corp is also mentioned behind each of the other unit names...for instance, the guards hvy tank regiment in post #475 is clearly labelled "36th Guards Hvy Tank Regiment - 18th Tank Corps". As Kuriltai mentions, maybe the picture is not connected with the scenario, but I can't figure out what Guards Hvy Tank Regiment you are talking about? RE: The Competition & Teaser Thread - Kuriltai - 02-13-2014 Quote:As Kuriltai mentions, maybe the picture is not connected with the scenario, but I can't figure out what Guards Hvy Tank Regiment you are talking about? I was working off Comrade P's work and figured he had somehow figured out that the lone Guards troops in the top right of the Scenario map was a heavy tank unit. PzC does not have a NATO symbol for heavy tanks and it seems PzB is the same... so.....the lone Guards troops in the top right of the Scenario map is simply a Guards Tank unit.Looking at Glantz's map for July 7th only Regt on the map is 48GTR... Disclaimer: All this is conjecture and there is a good chance I had way too much Cough Medicine today. RE: The Competition & Teaser Thread - Strela - 02-13-2014 (02-13-2014, 02:37 PM)Kuriltai Wrote:Quote:As Kuriltai mentions, maybe the picture is not connected with the scenario, but I can't figure out what Guards Hvy Tank Regiment you are talking about? Guys, Firstly let me apologise for tying you in knots! That said it is meant to be the 'teaser' thread. I never intended that screen shot to pose such a conundrum. I must admit, I have learned more about this battle through doing this project than I ever expected. There were engagements that I had never heard of and had a ball pulling them together as scenarios. If you all learn even half as much as I have pulling this together our time will have been worthwhile. I am pleased to see the (very) informed guesses. You're also proving some of the research we have done was worthwhile as we have gone back and triple check decisions we have made and there is nothing misrepresented in the screenshot you're all pondering. One area we have picked up an issue is the TOE for 36th Guards Heavy Tank Regiment. We have the right number of vehicles in game but the TOE is wrong. We have two conflicting sources but one is primary and we will be adjusting based on that. Unfortunately we had the secondary source first - you will see a slightly different Visual OB when we finally release it. Also a few people have pinged me and mentioned the 'overflow' in unit names. That is also currently being corrected and won't be an issue on release. David RE: The Competition & Teaser Thread - ComradeP - 02-13-2014 Quote:But the HQ unit is clearly labelled "HQ 18th Tank Corps", and 18th Tank Corp is also mentioned behind each of the other unit names...for instance, the guards hvy tank regiment in post #475 is clearly labelled "36th Guards Hvy Tank Regiment - 18th Tank Corps". There seems to be a misunderstanding somewhere. What I mean is that the OOB screenshot of the 18th Tank Corps doesn't show its divisional colours, so we can't compare it directly to the divisional colour/marking of the NATO counters of the unit on the map and say "it's 18th Tank Corps". What we can do is see that the Guards (Heavy) Tank Regiment has the same colour as the Tank Corps below it, which means it is part of the same formation (for this battle). The next step is determining how many regular Tank Corps had a Guards Tank Regiment attached, and the only corps I can find that qualifies is the 18th. Obviously, I can't tell with 100% certainty that it's a Heavy Guards Tank Regiment. However, the only regular Tank Corps with any kind of Guards Tank Regiment attached is the 18th, which has the 36th Guards Separate Tank Regiment (Heavy). The "Separate" can be the indication it was attached for a certain period. SU and Tank Regiments were often assigned and then centralized again over and over by the Soviets, which meant that some units could not have their supposedly organic SU regiments whilst a neighbouring Rifle Corps had several SU regiments. The units might be available, but centralization meant a lot of them were kept at Army or Corps (HQ) level. The 2nd Guards Tank Corps seems to have had a Regiment for one of its Tank Brigades instead of 2-3 battalions, and both the 2nd and 5th Guards Tank Corps had an additional Guards Tank Regiment. In the screenshot, the Guards Tank (?) formation in the middle has two full Tank brigades and what might be two Tank Regiments (there's one regimental HQ next to a Tank unit and one single hex Tank unit for one of its brigades) whilst the Guards Tank formation in the south has 3 normal Tank Brigades as well as a Tank regiment. After thinking about it, there is one Guards Tank Corps too many here for it to be Prokhorovka (after all, 5th Guards Tank Corps was attacking from the west with 1st Tank Army). I don't believe we're looking at 5th Guards Mechanized Corps either: it was split up for the actual battle and unless those battalion HQ's next to the infantry are stacks of battalion HQ's, there's not nearly enough infantry. There's also no brigade HQ for the infantry. There was another Tank Corps attacking from the east, but that was the 2nd, a regular Tank Corps. - I checked whether this could be the Vorskla river, but the river isn't nearly wide enough and the river on the left in the screenshot seems to stop in the woods. - I'll just wait for the "how could I have not recognized this/been so stupid?" moment at release. RE: The Competition & Teaser Thread - Wodin - 02-13-2014 A beta tester gave away the battle the game is covering over at Matrix forums. |
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