How do you improve PzB??? - Printable Version

How do you improve PzB??? - Printable Version

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RE: How do you improve PzB??? - Batu - 04-03-2014

(03-02-2014, 10:00 PM)Xaver Wrote: Well, i need say that PzB engine is a great step forward, i feel it great to cover the fight scale but even a great thing is not perfect... i open this thread where cover all players suggestions/petitions to improve PzB.

Here are my 2 cents after the first contact with engine.

1- i feel the germans are not scpecially deadly at range in armored combat, i test many times a T-34/76 rush VS 2 Tigers and very few times Tigers kill at range one of them... and when do it only 1 tank before the 10 tanks be in the adjacent hex.

2- i feel the company HQ tank in companies is a little useless, because very rare times do something and is the first vehicle killed in a shot duel... apart this if you launch an air attack in a hex where you stack 2 armored units, one of them with 1 vehicle practically all the time planes only destroy 1 tank and is the alone tank, is more usefull attack an hex with 10 tanks in a single counter than attack 2 counters with 1 vehicle + x in the 2nd counter.

Possible solution:
I think that these 2 problems could be solved adding a new value in PDT, a bonus to increase the AT performance in tanks by side i see 2 options for example:

-armored units over 50% strength receive a 50% bonus to his fire power, under 50% only 25%.
-or oposite, over 50% a bonus of 25% and under 50% receive 50% bonus in firepower.

The idea is made more valuable good tanks at range and made that close range to shot at point black be more dangerous and increase the value of a single tank, many times a simple Stug destroy a lot of tanks when they attack not using very well terrain.

3- ZOC... i dont know if is possible add an optional rule to have a more restrictive ZOC

Possible solution:
I think for example if in an hex you have... lets see over 100 stack points (only count the unit stacked no the wrecks) you need use over 50% action points to enter in any hex around the stacked hex, a hex with high stacking for me could even stop an enemy unit that try flank it.

4- Maybe AI needs a refinement to made AI harder to beat in defensive... i refer to made that when an infantry unit is under 10 soldiers strength the AI now use these units to fire and well, defensive fire beat them hard... if AI doenst use this unit to fire or retreat them player needs waste more action points to destroy them and attack could be a little more hard.

Another important improvement for me is made more "visible" the units under divisional level, now you only see unit colour at division but this made that many times you be a lot of time doing highlighting organization to know where start x regiment and where start y regiment, same at the battalion level, at company level is not a true problem

5- i think game needs add another colour code to made more easy know who is who when you use zoom in at max level.

Possible solution:
I think at least in regimental level, maybe do it at battalion level (like in EAW), i think do like for example as in Flashpoint where you have in the counter corner the formation colour... maybe is possible do this at battalion level and to know the regiment use the background colour behind NATO/unit symbols a regimental colour.... divisional units dont need a colour or a regimental level... until they are set under one of this HQ.

This is not easy to do and maybe is not necesary, i dont know if you find like me many times missing with zoom in at max level and you dont know what is the battalion and regiment for that damn rifle unit

Dont understand me bad, game is great but the way to perfection is very long

I agree with regard to AT fire, its always been broken (including Panzer campaigns) and you cant duplicate historical results where single or small numbers of potent tanks destroyed large numbers of inferior tanks such as T34/76s. Fire results are skewed towards large numbers firing which doesnt really work unfortunately.

Another issue is the all round fire from bunkers, these should have a facing so that they can be outflanked. At present they fire through 360 degrees.

RE: How do you improve PzB??? - Dog Soldier - 04-05-2014

(04-03-2014, 09:12 PM)Batu Wrote: Another issue is the all round fire from bunkers, these should have a facing so that they can be outflanked. At present they fire through 360 degrees.

I think I can address this aspect as PzB being more similar to PzC scale that to SB scale.

Any fortification in a single hex does on represent a single structure, but multiple structures. Some could be unmanned if one thinks about an entire company in the hex and only a single platoon both receiving a full benefit. Movement between them is beyond the scope of the game scale, but you can see what I am thinking goes on inside a hex.
If one stacks more troops than 1/2 of the stacking limit, the over stacking penalty still applies, reducing the benefit from the fortification until less than 1/2 of the stacking limit is again present in the hex.

This multiple structure concept within a hex works well in a battle like Kursk where the Soviets had ample time to prepare their defensive works. The Soviets did not use a linear defensive posture for their formations having learned the painful lessons of 1941-42 about linear defense and the German point of attack then spread out tactics. While described in books a s three main belts, the defensive works at Kursk were not linear (except in films where linear makes filming and framing easier).

Overlapping fields of fire and positioning the fortifications for all around defense would be common. The Soviets learned some these things from the Finnish Mannerheim line fortifications. Some they developed themselves.

I think the game models this well with a minimum of extra rules and conditions. Isolation is still possible for units in fortified hexes which simulates 'flanking'.

Dog Soldier

RE: How do you improve PzB??? - ComradeP - 04-07-2014

Concentrated fire can certainly cut the Germans down a size.

In State Farm against PijusMagnificus, the only remaining German AFV's were a Tiger and an SdKfz 222. The Germans lost 70 vehicles, most of which were Marders, StuGs and armoured cars. The Marders were mostly taken out by Katyusha and mortar fire (they have a weak defence value).

The StuGs by mines, Churchills, 76mm AT guns and T-34's (and one was knocked out by a 82mm mortar barrage, the freak hard attack result of the game).

My losses are roughly split between T-70's (7 or so) and Churchills and T-34's.

My high gun losses are mostly due to many (AT) artillery units being Fixed. That's becoming a minor pet peeve with the game. You can't move them until the Germans can kill them.

German gun losses came primarily from bombing Nebelwerfer stacks and interdiction.

The high German men losses are mostly from Katyusha fire hitting large stacks or units in T mode.

[Image: eWYg9qW.jpg]

RE: How do you improve PzB??? - Landser34 - 06-10-2014

I dont know if this has been mentioned but being an old infantryman myself I dont know many units that stay and fight to the last man like I have seen so far in the games I have played and that is not many so far 6 games but more in the works when attacking more often than not a unit will have to be killed to the last man to take a bunker or trenches it has been rare so far to disrupt a unit and be able to push them out but one stipulation to that is a couple of the scenarios are short so you dont have time to fire turn after turn hoping for a disruption you just have to charge and assault.

One more pet peeve of mine is minefield spotting same thing in the PZC if a unit is not in the minefields LOS after a unit hits it it dissapears now maybe that happens some but word get passed back in real life that your troops hit a minefield and that gets passed back to higher HQ so that other units passing by know where the minefield is at.

RE: How do you improve PzB??? - ComradeP - 06-10-2014

Loss tolerance is always higher in wargames than it would ever be in real life. For units defending in bunkers, fighting to the last man might not be too unrealistic if they know there's no way out or if they really want to hold the line.

For units in the open, I guess it's unrealistic, but the lower quality ones will usually retreat before being destroyed if assaulted. They might still die from direct fire, but the chance of that happening might be decreased with the first patch if the stacking percentage casualty modifier is also used for units below 50% of the stacking limit.