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Normandy '44 ALT art / scenario pack updated - Printable Version +- Forums (https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards) +-- Forum: The Firing Line (https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards/forumdisplay.php?fid=1) +--- Forum: Tiller Operational Campaigns (https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards/forumdisplay.php?fid=11) +--- Thread: Normandy '44 ALT art / scenario pack updated (/showthread.php?tid=36903) Pages:
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Normandy '44 ALT art / scenario pack updated - Volcano Man - 09-13-2006 RE: Normandy '44 ALT art / scenario pack updated - glennav8 - 09-13-2006 RE: Normandy '44 ALT art / scenario pack updated - glennav8 - 09-13-2006 RE: Normandy '44 ALT art / scenario pack updated - Volcano Man - 09-13-2006 RE: Normandy '44 ALT art / scenario pack updated - Engelbrekt - 09-13-2006 VM, did you, for this update, consider raising the Rubble value as in Bulge? Thanks for the great alt pack, /Engelbrekt RE: Normandy '44 ALT art / scenario pack updated - Volcano Man - 09-13-2006 Nah, I left it the same because in Bulge I think it becomes more problematic of how it can hold up the German advance through the Ardennes to an ahistorical rate. I could consider it if anyone thinks it is necissary here... I just thought it was ok at the stock level. RE: Normandy '44 ALT art / scenario pack updated - Elxaime - 09-13-2006 VM - Is this the 250 or 750 turn version of the campaign? Also, some questions: 1. The West Board Edge. In another alternative scenario done by another designer, many of the beach hexes on the Breton coast of France (from Cherbourg west, then south to the west edge of the map) were made impassable terrain. This was for two reasons. First was the argument that these beaches were subject to significant Atlantic tides that made their transit by military units implausible. Second, in some games, once an Allied player took Cherbourg, the Allied advance south would NOT go through the bocage, but instead the Allied player would hug the west coast. There were a few chokepoints, but since the Germans themselves are defending largely clear and beach terrain themselves, this resulted in a continuing Allied surge south and easy victory well ahead of historic timeframes, while ignoring the German bocage defense where the fighting actually took place. Aside from making some of these beaches impassable, a designer might also consider adding 3X minefields, fortifications and obstacles along the west coast at the places where the Germans historically developed strong inland defense lines. But the impassable beaches will help alot to solve the problem. 2. The East Board edge. The N44 campaign has an "East Board Edge" problem as well. By this I mean that the Allied player benefits from hindsight to know that the German 15th Army is over the horizon defending Pas de Calais, but in game terms won't react to an Allied thrust over the Orne towards Le Harve. Allied players, in my experience, almost always push east early, then hug the east board edge not only to outflank Caen but the German defenses to the west completely. While the intermittent arrival of German forces on the east board edge, with their entry disruption ability, helps somewhat, an Allied player usually knows when and where these arrive and can minimize their impact on his plans. As the Allies race down the east board edge (similar to their Breton beach dash in the west board edge) often this means the Germans simply keep from enterting reinforcements from the east, hastening the quick and inevitable Allied triumph. The terrain near the east board edge is almost entirely open or moderate, with no bocage, so once the Allies are there its game over. There are several ideas in addressing this. Taken together, they can include: a) implementing some minefields, AT ditches, fortifications and obstacles to buff up German defences beyond where the Allies Orne bridgehead historically developed; b) add some German artillery on the east board edge, perhaps in the Le Harve Peninsula, to reflect how the 15th Army would have shifted to meet an Allied push east; c) have 15th Army reinforcements enter early using trigger units if the Allies push east; d) make a good chunk of the ocean hexes east of the British beaches impassable to prevent the Allied fleet from ahistorically sailing under the guns of the Pas de Calais batteries to support a ground offensive along the east board edge. Some thoughts to consider. 3. Inland defenses. Since the PzC system limits what a defender can do after a game starts as far as mines (only 1X strength mines possible for engineers to lay), obstacles (can't do them) and bunkers/pillboxes (can't do them) the N44 game IMHO cannot accurately depict the density and strength of the defense lines the Germans developed inland, particularly around St. Lo and inland from Caen. So, once the Allies get ashore, they simply don't face the challenges the actual Allies did. I have never heard, for example, of a Allied player being unable to take Caen and push inland to victory well in advance of the time Montgomery did. Ditto for advances on the west in the areas under Bradley's command. I realize the PzC designers intended this result, since they did not think the time frame of most games allowed for realistic depiction of heavy engineering and denser minefields. This has always been puzzling for me, since in game after game you see stand-alone smaller scenarios with fortifications and dense minefields that, in campaign games covering the exact time frame, the player for that side would have no opportunity to construct. I have always felt a way to address this would be to give a player on defense a limited number "convertible" truck-style units that, when brought to a hex, can be "deployed" (with a lengthy set up time) and once "ready" are fully functional bunkers. This would help limit the concern that a defender would over-do heavy fortifications (these things cost significant materials to construct) while giving a defender a chance to stake out and develop heavy defenses to stall the enemy once they reached that line. Since the PzC game system doesn't allow this solution, you may want to consider adding German bunkers, pillboxes, AT ditches, 3X minefields, etc. in certain inland sectors where the Germans developed strong lines (e.g. along the Bourgebus ridge south of Caen, around St. Lo, etc.). To prevent the problem of German units passing through or having to garrison such fortifications to prevent their being "downgraded" you might create "Organization Todt" German cipher units, with negligible combat impact, to be fixed in these positions to occupy them. Any such German rear lines, needless to say, need to be artfully placed by a designer so as not to block or impede the transit of German reinforcements. Thanks as always for your wonderful work. Let me know what you think about these ideas. RE: Normandy '44 ALT art / scenario pack updated - Jazman - 09-13-2006 Is the beach _really_ 200% now? Edit: Played a few turns of Omaha, that 200% is not a slaughter. Also, I'm making better progress than I ever have in taking those objectives. Turn 4 and I've already taken three objectives, but that's because I'm just assaulting without waiting for defenders to be disrupted. But I have noticed more disrupted defenders in general. RE: Normandy '44 ALT art / scenario pack updated - Volcano Man - 09-13-2006 RE: Normandy '44 ALT art / scenario pack updated - Baelfiin - 09-14-2006 Will updating to new version cause existing PBEM game in progress to break? |
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