Berlin '45: Hypothetical OOB - Printable Version +- Forums (https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards) +-- Forum: The Firing Line (https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards/forumdisplay.php?fid=1) +--- Forum: Tiller Operational Campaigns (https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards/forumdisplay.php?fid=11) +--- Thread: Berlin '45: Hypothetical OOB (/showthread.php?tid=37737)

Berlin '45: Hypothetical OOB - HirooOnoda - 11-13-2006 I know that one day we will see this title produced for the PC series. I'm curious though how the question of the **volkstrum** will be handled though. I was taking a numerous eastern-front/Berlin games I had or had access to and noticed that many of them don't bother to include these units. It you take a look at Schewpunks AGW they have a screen shot of the situation at the Oder river where the Russians have the Germans outnumbered by about 20-1 in units-and the only units displayed on the German side appear to be either SS or wehrmacht units. No SA, HJ or Volkstrum units. Isn't this significant deletion of an important force on the German side? My research indictates that there were tens of thousands-if not hundreds of thousands of these ad-hoc units formed by the Germans in the spring of '45. And they did have an impact upon the Russians as they advanced on Berlin and in the fighting in Berlin. So how would, hypothetically speaking of course, a B'45 game handle such a large number of units that appear out of nowhere? Will it be like how the Partisans are generated in Minsk '44? Sign me curious. Hiroo RE: Berlin '45: Hypothetical OOB - HirooOnoda - 11-13-2006 "I was taking a numerous eastern-front/Berlin games" Oops! I meant "I was taking a look at numerous...". RE: Berlin '45: Hypothetical OOB - Huib Versloot - 11-13-2006 Most Volkssturm units were paper units and sent home before entering battle. Also they were never larger than Batallion size. Volksturm units were only a little bit succesful if they were integrated in regular army units. There were certainly never ever hundreds of thousands Volkssturm units fighting. If I were a game designer I would only place those few Volkssturm units that actually made it into the literature. Wargames also don't show civilians; they had more or less the same impact on the fighting as the Volkssturm.... because they are the same. RE: Berlin '45: Hypothetical OOB - von Nev - 11-14-2006 RE: Berlin '45: Hypothetical OOB - Huib Versloot - 11-14-2006 These 150.000 men are still NOT Volkssturm but "regular" soldiers allbeit without infantry training. For example Canada also had to comb their army offices converting clerks into infantry after the summer of 1944 when they were desperately short of infantry. An example of the consequences is Black friday 13th October 1944 for the Black Watch, when these inexperienced new replacements were slaughtered. Volkssturm units were organized in the localities where the civilians who were 'drafted' for the Volkssturm lived. So there was never any large Volkssturm army on any given front. From 1944 many Luftwaffe and Navy personell were drafted into the infantry and Fallschirmjaeger divisions and in some instances they were very succesfull when led by veterans and experienced officers. Examples are the 352 VGD in the Bulge and the 4 FJ divisions in the battle of the Rheinland. RE:��Berlin '45: Hypothetical OOB - HirooOnoda - 11-14-2006 Hitler then turned to Heinrici and said, "There, you have 150,000 men - about 12 divisions - those are your reserves." Heinrici was stupified and struggled to maintain composure knowing there was no supplies to equip them, no time to train them and the men were near useless as infantry. He then said, "These men are not combat trained. They have been in rear areas or in offices or on ships or in maintainance areas for the Luftwaffe - They have never SEEN a Russian." Finally, after some arguments he said scathingly "I will tell you, all of these men will be slaughtered at the front! SLAUGHTERED!!" Okay, now that you've read Ryan go and read "Berlinance of Death" and get back to me about the "lack of supplies". Handing Stgw'44s like candy on Halloween. :smg: