Gun! Gun! Gun! - Printable Version

Gun! Gun! Gun! - Printable Version

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Gun! Gun! Gun! - PoorOldSpike - 03-31-2007

Tiger ace Michael Wittman said he hated enemy guns more than tanks, and I'm sure CM players agree with him because guns can usually get off 2 or 3 shots before they're even spotted.
In this top pic my herd of T-70's suddenly came under fire from a light AT-gun in the trees in the previous turn and holes began appearing in them.
So in the next order phase I jam everybody's brakes on and order them to saturate the gun position with area fire (yellow lines)
Then just 9 seconds into the turn the gun crew run off as the position erupts in a storm of high-explosive tank fire, (not bad considering the T-70's guns are only baby 45mm's)..
That's usually my standard tactic against guns, I stop and return fire on them with everything I've got because they're so deadly and must be taken down without delay, although sometimes i'll let my tanks keep moving on 'Fast' if the gun can be quickly bypassed.
Notice I used mostly area-fire into the ground around the gun position, that's because area-firers will keep on plastering throughout the whole turn, whereas if I used direct fire they'd stop firing if the gun became pinned, because they'd lose their lock on it.
However I do leave a small proportion of the tank force direct-firing (red lines) so they're free to shoot up the running gun crew or anything else..

[Image: zerotol1.jpg]

RE: Gun! Gun! Gun! - Ratzki - 03-31-2007

RE:��Gun! Gun! Gun! - Copper - 03-31-2007

RE: Gun! Gun! Gun! - PoorOldSpike - 03-31-2007

Thanks guys but don't read too much into just the top pic, as every battle is different and we have to play it by ear as the situation changes minute-by-minute..
For example in this one below (viewed from the German side of the map) my Russkis captured the flag at top right, went through some Marders like butter, then my T-34's came down the road and were stopped dead by a pakfront of (gulp) 7 guns and were butchered.
Okay I win some, I lose some, i'm kool..

[Image: CM-gunline1.jpg]

RE: Gun! Gun! Gun! - The Coil - 03-31-2007

I've always found the 'tank fist' concept most helpful on defense, where you can move it around under cover and lie in wait, in the manner of your 'line of death' pic, POS. It's a great way to get maximum firepower on the opponents AFVs as the come in to sight one at a time, especially as your vehicles are generally stationary, and acquire targets quicker.

For me, always been too risky on the attack, especially against a good opponent. 12 tanks on 1 gun, you'll probably be OK. But drive that fist into LOS of 3 guns against an opponent who knows when to fire (in the manner of the second pic), and your fist will be hurting. As a defender, I'm usually very happy if I can trade a gun for 2 tanks. An experienced gun crew will get that on a tank fist before it's even spotted.

The advantage of the tank fist on the attack, on the other hand, is that your throw your whole weight at one small slice of your opponent's line, minimizing the amount of troops you are fighting with the fist, unless he's done a good job shifting forces...

RE: Gun! Gun! Gun! - Ratzki - 03-31-2007

Yes POS, every situation is different. It is just that th 1st picture indicates a form of attack that I do not subscribe to. The 3rd picture illustrates exactly the flaw that was pointed out. Multiple guns from different locations with good interlocking fire. What I do notice is the lack of infantry in both that I do not see. They would have handled the guns if they were out combing the cover for the enemy. I'll make an infantryman of you yet. ;)

RE:��Gun! Gun! Gun! - PoorOldSpike - 03-31-2007

The Coil Wrote:...................The advantage of the tank fist on the attack, on the other hand, is that your throw your whole weight at one small slice of your opponent's line, minimizing the amount of troops you are fighting with the fist, unless he's done a good job shifting forces...

Right mate, it's not rocket science, anybody can do it -
"Man schlagt jemanden mit der Faust und nicht mit gespreizten Fingern" - Gen. Guderian
("Punch with your fist and not with your fingers spread")

Here's a shot from an ongoing game, my tank fist of 12x T-34/85's raced over the hill at bottom right and blew away a Panther and 3x 75mm(?) ATG's that opened up on them, shooting it out over the next couple of turns.
The result? - I lost 4x T-34s and he lost the Panther and the 3x Guns..
It's only turn 6 and I've kicked in the door of his entire left flank..
Now my infantry are fanning out into a screen to walk in front of the tanks to flush out any schrecks in the clumps of trees as my whole force rolls up to the flags..

[Image: gun1.jpg]

RE: Gun! Gun! Gun! - PoorOldSpike - 03-31-2007

BELOW - THE POWER OF THE GUN.
PIC 1 - In another game this 6-pounder opens up on three Stugs

[Image: a1.jpg]

PIC 2 - The gunners view. It fires several times before the enemy can even spot it and begin trying to return fire..

[Image: a2.jpg]

PIC 3 - Within 2 turns the Stugs are dead. One fired back several times but was no match against the fast-firing highly-accurate 6-pdr, it peppered them with 17 shots (note ammo readouts), most of which hit and penetrated.
"Whoever fires first, wins" - modern Israeli tank doctrine.
"The day goes to the first to plaster his opponent with fire" - Rommel

[Image: a3.jpg]

6-pdr, Normandy
[Image: Gun-6p-lane-Norm.jpg]

RE: Gun! Gun! Gun! - MGK(FGM) - 04-01-2007

It is better never shot from gun then shot to early because when gun is spotted = gun is destroyed I never allow tank versus gun duel - if my tank would survive first shot - usually reverse (or smoke) and near by infantry seek for LOS near the gun - then tank goes to that spot and fire .
The best weapon against guns are mortars :)

RE: Gun! Gun! Gun! - PoorOldSpike - 04-01-2007

105mm Howitzer
[Image: gun105.jpg]