Artillery plotting?? - Printable Version

Artillery plotting?? - Printable Version

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Artillery plotting?? - Copper - 05-06-2007

Ok... picture this if you will. In a game against Cargol I had an 81mm Obs and a 120mm Obs. The 81mm Obs had a clear LOS to his target area. After 3 minutes his rounds started to fall. In the middle of my defence about 200 meters from where he had targetted. I re-adjusted the target (green line) the artillery landed in the same (wrong) place. By this time he was out of ammo so I targetted the 120mm Obs on my original intended area to target and the same thing happens... the shells land in the middle of my own troops 200 meters away.

There is no smoke between me and my target.. the line is blue.. when I change target I get the green line.

Ive no idea why this happened... any suggestions.

RE: Artillery plotting?? - Fredrocker - 05-06-2007

It's got to do with Experience.... Wind (yes this is a big factor) and LOS/LOF Terrain... so if you think about it maybe there was a wind between the 'targeted area' and your troops... if blowing that way... it might explain it... just trying to help sir Bootie

That is all...

RE: Artillery plotting?? - Copper - 05-06-2007

Cheers pal... I didnt realise wind direction affected artillery. You sure about that??

RE: Artillery plotting?? - cargol - 05-06-2007

I do not know from where those sells came but a short barrage fell also to one Plt of mine (probably of 81mm,around 20 pieces) causing some casualties and panicking two squads.I do not know if we are speaking about the same barrage.

RE: Artillery plotting?? - Mad Russian - 05-06-2007

Actually the impact zone for artillery is the last thing that affects where it lands.

There are only three things that govern if an artillery plot lands where you want it and seeing the impact area is not one of them.

1) The FO must stay in good order the entire time. He cannot have been disrupted, broken or even pinned. You cannot voluntarily hide him either.

2) the FO must see the SPOTTING ROUND!!!! If for some reason the spotting round falls out of LOS then the mission is sent to random impact.

3) He must see the impact area the entire time from plot, to spotting round to impact as well. If smoke/dust of any kind gets between him and the impact area it will break the impact area and make it random.

I'm guessing from what you said about the results your FO didn't see the spotting round.

AND you can NEVER adjust a random artillery mission!!! You must completely replot it from the beginning or it continues to fire right where it landed the first time.

Hope this helps.

Good Hunting.

MR

RE: Artillery plotting?? - raz_atoth - 05-06-2007

Mad Russian Wrote:1) The FO must stay in good order the entire time. He cannot have been disrupted, broken or even pinned. You cannot voluntarily hide him either.

True,but from my knowledge if the FO is disrupted,the arty strike will be canceled,not fall in some other undesired place.

Mad Russian Wrote:2) the FO must see the SPOTTING ROUND!!!! If for some reason the spotting round falls out of LOS then the mission is sent to random impact.

Again,i believe this is slightly incorrect.I thought the FO must have los to the targeted place when the spotting round lands,and not to the place where the spotting round fails?

Mad Russian Wrote:3) He must see the impact area the entire time from plot, to spotting round to impact as well. If smoke/dust of any kind gets between him and the impact area it will break the impact area and make it random.

And for the third time i must disagree cheers

The FO must have los to the target only when the spotting round lands.Not before and i believe not after as well.You can for example,plot the strike without having los to the target and the arty strike will land as desired if at the moment when the spotting round will land you have los.

RE: Artillery plotting?? - Mad Russian - 05-06-2007

raz_atoth Wrote:
Mad Russian Wrote:1) The FO must stay in good order the entire time. He cannot have been disrupted, broken or even pinned. You cannot voluntarily hide him either.
True,but from my knowledge if the FO is disrupted,the arty strike will be canceled,not fall in some other undesired place.

Mad Russian Wrote:2) the FO must see the SPOTTING ROUND!!!! If for some reason the spotting round falls out of LOS then the mission is sent to random impact.
Again,i believe this is slightly incorrect.I thought the FO must have los to the targeted place when the spotting round lands,and not to the place where the spotting round fails?

Mad Russian Wrote:3) He must see the impact area the entire time from plot, to spotting round to impact as well. If smoke/dust of any kind gets between him and the impact area it will break the impact area and make it random.
And for the third time i must disagree The FO must have los to the target only when the spotting round lands.Not before and i believe not after as well.You can for example,plot the strike without having los to the target and the arty strike will land as desired if at the moment when the spotting round will land you have los.

You can disagree if you like.

I was explaining why the rounds he fired may be falling on his own troops.

I'm open to another suggestion.

Tell me this then..if only the impact area is important why does CM have spotting rounds? To adjust the fire. If the FO can't see the spotting round he can't adjust the fire. SO, no LOS to the spotting round and you go to random impact.

At least that's been my experience. Maybe you have another reason that his fire is landing on his own troops and his FO can see the impact area?

I seem to be a bit confused by your post...in the first part you say that the spotting round doesn't have to be seen and then in part 3 you say it must be?

Good Hunting.

MR

RE: Artillery plotting?? - PoorOldSpike - 05-06-2007

Hey Bootie send me a few game files (and password) covering the incident and i'll try to pin down what went on frame-by-frame and i'll post screenshots if necessary
pooroldspike at aol dotcom

RE: Artillery plotting?? - raz_atoth - 05-06-2007

MR,
Maybe i wasn't clear enough.It sometimes happens since i'm not a native english speaker :) Let me put it this way:
1) The FO must not have los to the targeted area when the arty strike is plotted.
2) In order for the arty strike to land on target he must have los to the targeted area when the spotting round is fired.
3)It is not relevant whether or not the FO has los to the actual place where the spotting round lands.
4)If the FO has los to the targeted for the entire interval during the plotting and the actual arty strike minus the second when the spotting round lands the strike will be off-target.
At least that's how i noticed it works cheers

RE: Artillery plotting?? - raz_atoth - 05-06-2007

Ok,i just run a test in the editor to see if i'm right or not.Of course,since my test involves only 5 spotters it must be taken with care,still what i've seen so far seems to prove my point.
Here's how it goes:5 german 120mm spotters have been aligned behind a hill.In turn 2(to avoid pre-plotting),all 5 receive orders to target without having los to the target area.
They are also instructed to run forward(with a delay of 14 seconds) in order to gain los to the target when the spotting round will land.

[Image: 12579596tz5.jpg]

As you can see from the below image,they now have los to the target area before the spotting round was fired.
[Image: 78981251yp4.jpg]

The spotting rounds land.4 of them are in sight of the FOs.
[Image: 43809871zo0.jpg]

...one however,isn't.
[Image: 46064828oa2.jpg]

And the end result:
[Image: 31509845on3.jpg]

So as you can see-and please feel free to test it yourself-all the rounds landed on-target although in the moment when the arty strike was actually plotted neither of them had los to the target,nor did one spotting round was seen when it felt.