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Russian pillboxes in early 1941 - Printable Version +- Forums (https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards) +-- Forum: The Firing Line (https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards/forumdisplay.php?fid=1) +--- Forum: Combat Mission (https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards/forumdisplay.php?fid=10) +---- Forum: CM Tactical Discussion (https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards/forumdisplay.php?fid=31) +---- Thread: Russian pillboxes in early 1941 (/showthread.php?tid=42844) |
Russian pillboxes in early 1941 - Copper - 10-27-2007 The 76mm pillbox is not an AT gun, but is actually the L/18? howitzer that has very low velocity and is thus very ineffective against all early german panzers except for light skinned vehicles such as grille or jagd varieties. As well, note there is only one weapon that is effective against the russian gun pillbox, and that is the 150mm gun mounted on the chassis of the panzer I. Gun pillboxes on both sides are hard to kill in this era, as the "armor" rating is equivalent to the frontal armor on a Panther (at o degrees). Therefore, 50mm and 75mm guns have a rare, very low, or low kill percentage on a hit, dependent on whether the hit enters the firing slit or not. If so, this may cause a morale check, and or abandonment. Be very careful in QB's as to the terms in defense battles. A wiley enemy can buy enough of these to stall any advance. Cheers! Leto RE: Russian pillboxes in early 1941 - RedDevil - 10-27-2007 I like to buy the MG Pill boxes and supplement them with an ATG hiding nearby with the same LOS as the Pillbox.. this way when the enemy armor drives into sight to blast the Pillbox it gets a AP round or 2.. Also it's good to protect the rear of your pillboxes with Barbed wire and a half squad (or full one) in a foxhole, this way when the enemy Infantry approaches to drop some HE in your arse you can surprise him a little bit with the wire holding him up while your Squad lays some lead out. I've went as far as even using wooden pill boxes to protect the rear of the concrete ones, since most times armor can't get around to the rear and the wooden one is pretty effective, especially in wooded areas. RE: Russian pillboxes in early 1941 - Copper - 10-27-2007 RedDevil Wrote:I like to buy the MG Pill boxes and supplement them with an ATG hiding nearby with the same LOS as the Pillbox.. this way when the enemy armor drives into sight to blast the Pillbox it gets a AP round or 2.. Good points Dev. I've used the MG pillbox / AT gun in same LOS combo before to good effect. I like the idea of the wire protecting against the pillbox rear, but think that a squad or MG unit dug in back there would suffice. I only use wooden MG pillboxes in dense woods that cannot be attacked by tank weaponry (they light up real easy compared to their concrete brethren), but would consider usage of a wooden MG pillbox with the AT gun combo referred to above. I would also recommend against using gun pillboxes as board edge flank defenses, as although very tough to get at due to limited side attacks against the pillbox mitigated by the board edge, they are easily bypassed. This may be more of a subjective preferrence, as I use tanks for board edge flank protection, and can move them if and when it is determined that the enemy is not trying to do a sideline romp into your rear. Cheers! Leto RE: Russian pillboxes in early 1941 - RedDevil - 10-27-2007 The Best combo I've had the pleasure of using was In Fredrocker's Sie Kommen scenario waldem beach? He gave the Germans an 88 in concrete INSIDE a house with 2 MG concretes on either side... it was pure hell for MrY to get any armor off the beach and his Rangers who scaled the cliffs in front died when the reached the top from fierce MG fire.. RE: Russian pillboxes in early 1941 - Copper - 10-27-2007 RedDevil Wrote:The Best combo I've had the pleasure of using was In Fredrocker's Sie Kommen scenario waldem beach? He gave the Germans an 88 in concrete INSIDE a house with 2 MG concretes on either side... it was pure hell for MrY to get any armor off the beach and his Rangers who scaled the cliffs in front died when the reached the top from fierce MG fire.. Yeesh! One last comment: make sure that on attack defends that you do not let the defender choose a small or medium sized map with 2000-3000 points. This allows the defender to use fortifications to block progress and funnel you into kill zones like what Reddevil offered above. I've yet to see a map with roadblocks used to block off every route for vehicles to the flag, but I suspect it could happen. I would suggest that a fortification limit be agreed to before the game starts. Cheers! Leto RE: Russian pillboxes in early 1941 - herroberst - 10-30-2007 Hmm, I don't recall ever having much trouble with concrete or wooden pillboxes as long as I had a couple of direct fire weapons to shoot at the firing slit. Will's placement of wooden pillboxes in the two bridge scenario of Sie Kommen gave me hell because the allies didn't have bazookas (an omission?) but I went around them eventually or will satchel charge them in a bit. Phil's sneaky placement of pillboxes in buildings in Operation Peiper continues to chew up my forces but I've taken them out once they show themselves with direct fire 75mm from PzIVGs and Stugs. Larry is tearing me a new one in HSG Vire... bocage, loads of Germans, pillboxes, guns, and mines, mines, mines and no Allied engineers... anyone win this one as Allies... it's downright discouraging so far? If I use pillboxes I try to place them where there can be no direct fire placed on them easily or in surprising locations. I have used the wire to protect them trick successfully. If the terrain allows, a fun thing to do is to site the pillbox to shoot 45 degrees but back towards your own lines to cover open spaces the opponent might use and then you can shoot him in rear... course you have to protect the pillbox with infantry, mines, and wire. |
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