On the table - Printable Version

On the table - Printable Version

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On the table - PoorOldSpike - 09-02-2008

The following tables and charts are already scattered throughout the Tac Discussion Area, so I thought I'd duplicate them in this bundle for convenience, they mostly apply to cmbb.

SPEEDS
[Image: speeds.jpg]

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YOU EYEBALLIN' ME BOY?
This cmbb test shows the distances in metres at which infantry in cover (stationary, not firing) will be spotted by enemy infantry approaching from the right. Both sides are veterans, sunny summer midday, NOT in foxholes.
(Note - distances vary greatly during play according to different weather/ visibility/ season etc)
Examples - a unit in woods won't be spotted until an enemy closes to within about 20 metres.
In wheat he'll be spotted at about 100m.
In open ground he'll be spotted from well over 800m.
[Image: eyeball.jpg]

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COVER STORY
[Image: expos.jpg]

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WHOOSH
[Image: whoosh.jpg]

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BUILDINGS
[Image: bldgs.jpg]

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GUN SET UP TIMES
[Image: CM-gunsetup.jpg]

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WHO CAN CROSS WHAT?
[Image: cross2.jpg]

RE: On the table - PoorOldSpike - 09-02-2008

SMALL HEDGES
Note,there are two types of hedge in CM, 'Hedges' and 'Tall Hedges'.
Only the small variety are in cmbb, but cmak has both types.
(see separate thread for Tall hedges)
In fact I call ordinary hedges 'small hedges' so we don't get the two types mixed up because they have very different properties.

[Image: smlhedge.jpg]

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TALL HEDGES
[Image: tallhedges.jpg]

CAN CROSS TALLS - Allied tanks/TD's/SPG's from July 44/ Foot units.

CAN'T CROSS TALLS - German fulltracks/ All nations halftracks/ Armoured cars/ Trucks/ Jeeps/ Kubels/ Guns

Note- the Cullin hedgerow device allows heavy Allied armour to cross and enter from Jul 44,but German armour can NEVER cross or enter. (Knowing that bit of vital info can win or lose games)..;)
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WALLS
[Image: walls.jpg]

WALL TESTS
Walls give an exposure rating reduction to all infantry-class units and guns within 15 metres of it (30% compared to 75% in open)

Walls give hulldown to tanks within 15m

Note - with all the units, the 15m shrinks dramatically if firer is higher or is firing at sharp angle across wall, so always get as close up to it as possible but NOT actually ON the wall or their exposure skyrockets to 95% (think "sitting ducks")

Static non-firing infantry and guns in the 15m zone are harder to spot than if they were in the open (approaching enemy infantry will spot inf and gun units in the 15m zone when they close to about 280m, compared to 880m in the open)

But infantry units and guns on 'Hide' in the 15m zone will not be spotted until approaching infantry is about 20 m away.
However the 20m does not apply if the enemy saw them before they went on hide,in which case the usual 280m spotting figure applies instead.

Hiders DO have LOS over wall, they're not blind.

Halftracks, wheeled vehs and guns can't cross walls

TACTICAL SUMMARY -
1 - Get your units (inc tanks) within the 15-metre protection zone behind walls, the closer to the wall the better

2 - If you don't plan on shooting for a while, put your inf and guns on Hide in the zone so the enemy won't see them until they close to a pointblank 20m
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BLOCKING TERRAIN
This chart shows how much terrain you should put between yourself and enemy units to ensure he can't see you (but the downside is you won't be able to see him either)
Examples -if there are 26 metres of woods between you and him, there's no way he can see you even if you're having a wild rock n' roll party in there, because there are 26m of leaves and tree trunks blocking LOS.
Likewise, if you put 54m of scattered trees between you, that's enough to block LOS too.
(the 'U' stands for 'unlimited', meaning that type of terrain never blocks LOS no matter how much of it is between you)
Note - All figures are for summer when the leaves and wheat are thick,so in Spring/ Fall/ Winter you'll need much more foliage and wheat between you.
Important - All figures may vary slightly during play, so don't take them as gospel, but always err on the safe side and put as much between you as you can if you want to stay unseen.
Note - You don't have to actually be in the terrain, you can be in the open so long as there's a clump of terrain anywhere between you and him of the required density.
[Image: blocking1.jpg]

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BLOWING BRIDGES TEST RESULTS
(Note CM's inbuilt randomness means figures may vary slightly from game to game)

[Image: CMbridges.jpg]

TEST 1 - HEAVY BRIDGE (high pointed arch graphics)
150mm shells from Hummels/ Brummbars/ Grilles = 128 shells needed to drop bridge
75mm shells from PzIVH's = 522 shells to drop bridge
Pioneer demo charges = 66 charges to drop bridge

TEST 2 - MEDIUM BRIDGE (gentle low arch graphics)
150mm = 5 shells needed
75mm = 22 shells needed
Demos = 3 charges needed

TEST 3 - LIGHT BRIDGE (Trestle graphics)
150mm = 3 shells needed
75mm = 13 shells needed
Demos = 2 charges needed

Note:- Don't spread the shells/charges along the length of the bridge or it'll take more to drop it, so concentrate on one spot.
Note:-Don't shoot at the road at the ends of the bridge even though the targetting cursor says "bridge" or it'll take longer to drop; so target the dark grey bridge surface itself. And it doesn't matter whether you target a spot above an arch or not, it's no tougher or weaker there.
Note:- You can monitor the "damage asterisks" at the end of each turn via the "look" cursor to see how you're doing; 1 asterisk means light damage, 2 asts mean medium damage, 3 mean about to drop.
Note:- When throwing demo charges, 30metres is max range, watch for "use explosives" confirmation message when targetting.
Note:- Flamethrowers have no effect against bridges,not even the light bridge.

PS - Grenade bundles can also blow bridges, a medium will require about 9 bundles to drop it (see test pics elsewhere in this stunning thread), and a light bridge will need much less, but forget about trying to drop a heavy with bundles, you'd need dozens.
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SPOTTING FORTIFICATIONS
This chart is an abstracted condensation of a number of tests I conducted to determine at what ranges enemy fortifications will appear on the map.
I placed pairs of forts, one of each pair in open ground, the other in woods (note the green strips) then placed a line of infantry 2000 metres away from the fort line and observed what they could see. (just the Gun-armed pillbox).
I then returned to the editor and placed the infantry line at 1500 metres, restarted the game, and this time they could also see the MG-armed pillbox.
Eventually by moving the infantry further forward each time, I was able to log at what ranges every type of fort became visible.(Daisies were the last to be spotted when the infantry closed to 100 metres)
NOTE - Ranges will vary according to weather and visibility etc and whether the spotters are moving or not (movers spot poorly)
The tests were carried out with stationary veteran infantry on a clear summer mid-day.
(Note with some forts it makes no difference if it's in open ground or in woods, the spotting distance remains the same)

[Image: Spot-fortsA.png]

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[Image: snipx-1.jpg]

RE: On the table - McEvilly - 09-05-2008

Great stuff! Thanks POS.

RE: On the table - angelberjon - 10-09-2008

Very interesting . Many thanks !!

RE: On the table - bluehand - 10-16-2008

Hey POS can you do one on hiding tanks behind terrain. how much scattered woods do I need to hide my Sherman behind it?

RE: On the table - herroberst - 10-16-2008

You can run your line of sight out of the scattered woods to measure cover. Obviously, if the line goes orange before the end of the woods you are in cover. If the line is light blue out of the woods you can be seen from that angle at least to the limit of the blue line. Depends on weather too - Guderian found that out when during an operation with snow falling the light conditions changed from dawn to day giving a clearer picture and revealing some of his units hitherto hidden.

RE: On the table - Bear - 02-03-2009

Excellent survey, with illustrations to boot.
Btw trucks with tow cannot cross fences, don't know bout HTs...

Can you tell me if tanks get a bonus in a trench?
TIA

Bear

RE: On the table - PoorOldSpike - 02-04-2009

Bear Wrote:Can you tell me if tanks get a bonus in a trench?

Check pretty pic here mate-

http://www.thefewgoodmen.com/FGMForum/index.php

(Go to Tactics Section> Hulldown)

RE: On the table - Bear - 02-05-2009

Thanks spike

RE: On the table - PoorOldSpike - 02-05-2009

Okay mate, all my stuff is in the FGM Tactical forum
http://www.thefewgoodmen.com/
and I keep it regularly updated, revised and added to, so look in from time to time, there's also a questions thread in there which I answer by doing and posting tests.
A lot of my stuff is scattered all around the CM community including here at Blitz but unfortunately I don't have the time to do the rounds to tend it, so I concentrate my efforts almost exclusively at FGM..:)