Tankettes - How Useful in CS? - Printable Version

Tankettes - How Useful in CS? - Printable Version

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Tankettes - How Useful in CS? - Kool Kat - 03-23-2010

Howdy gents: :smoke:

In my research work for my H2H scenario (First Battle of Tembien), I learned that the Italians utilized a number of tankettes - like the Carro Veloce CV-33

Brief History:

During the 1920s the Italians saw a Carmen-Loyd 2 man tank and purchased 6 some. Italy also got the rights to manufacture them. Twenty-five were built and called the CV (Carro Veloce) 29 (CV-284). Ansaldo produced them with some components made by FIAT. Originally called CV.33 and CV.35 until 1938 when were redesignated. Was armed with a 6.5 mm water cooled MG, and later armed with an air cooled MG.
Had a bolted superstructure and improved vision equipment. Had a Breda 13.2 mm MG. First saw action against Ethiopian tribesman at Ual-Ual in December 1934. Also saw action in Ethiopia, Spain, France, Greece, Yugoslavia, Albania, Crete, North Africa, Russia, Corsica, Sardinia, Sicily, and Italy. Were also sold to Afghanistan, Albania, Austria, Bolivia, Brazil, Bulgaria, China, Greece, Hungary, Iraq, Nationalist Spain, and Salvador.

In "pure" military terms, the Italian CV-33 was not very successful in Ethiopia and North Africa. The Italians discovered that armor had its limitations in the desert, as the CV-33 tankettes heated up to 120 degrees F. After a couple of days, the two-man crews were too exhausted to function properly! :eek1: Also, the bolted superstructure and metal used in its design were inferior to most other AFVs of its day. I read accounts in which broken-down Italian tankettes were simply abandoned by their crews and never recovered! :eek1:

In "pure" CS terms, the Italian CV-33 has "some" benefits: Pros: Speed and being armored helps too. Cons: Poor defense and attack strength. Tactics: Scout and spot.

In your CS gaming experiences, how have you utilized tankettes? Do you find them "superior" to armored cars? What tankettes (models) do you consider the "best" in terms of performance - speed and armament?

Interested in learning from your experience with tankettes! :smoke:

RE: Tankettes - How Useful in CS? - junk2drive - 03-23-2010

I posted this analogy at a Steel Panthers forum in reply to a kid from Finland asking what good were Italian tanks and tankettes. Maybe it applies to CS too.

junk2drive Wrote:Lakerust
I live in the desert, you live in the snow.
Imagine sending a few scouts out in the snow. A large, somewhat flat area without big trees. How about sending a snowmobile with them. And mount a MG on the front. And put some armour up front. Now if the scouts meet an enemy force, the snowmobile can move up, and be a mobile MG with some protection against small arms fire. It is small, low to the ground, very hard to spot. Since the MG has long range, it can set back a bit and suppress the enemy while your scouts retreat.
That is what the Italian tankettes were for. Small and light to cross the desert terrain. Low profile to hide. Enough firepower and armour to survive initial contact.
I haven't played SP with them. I would hope that they are a small size that would allow them to move slow across the desert, not leave a dust trail, and be very hard to spot. If not, the game may be at fault.
If you could sneak one with a 37 or 47mm gun into postion and take out a pesky gun, AT gun or MG nest, and then slip out of LOS, you would think it was great.

RE: Tankettes - How Useful in CS? - Mike Abberton - 03-23-2010

It seems that they are most useful for scouting/spotting for artillery, maybe surround and capture (although that is much less useful than in the past assuming extreme assault. When they are prevalent, there aren't a lot of long-range AT guns roaming around, so they are reasonably safe if you keep them away from enemy tanks. And if the enemy is diverting armor resources to hunt down your tankettes, so much the better. Watch out if the other guys has air support though.

They are not much use elsewise, imo. The MG on the tankettes is typically short-ranged and not all that effective against infantry (low soft AFs), and most early war infantry are able to kill tankettes pretty easily by either direct fire or assault. So for me, they are of much less use in the main fight.

Those are very general comments, and there may be a few diamonds in the rough that are a little more effective.

Mike

RE: Tankettes - How Useful in CS? - Scud - 03-23-2010

I'm not up on the specific ones I've used, they're not much fun, and so, too easy to forget. Just the name "tank-ette" makes me nervous. When I get them, I use them to scout and spot and usually misuse their op fire when trying to use them for ambushing. Op on for armor? Usually has pretty awful consequences. Op on for infantry, usually just gets the infantry mad. If you can get them beyond a flank, though, and into the enemies rear they can really shine. Until, that is, they shoot at a fat juicy loaded truck and nothing happens.

Dave

RE: Tankettes - How Useful in CS? - Skryabin - 03-23-2010

(03-23-2010, 11:32 PM)Scud Wrote: Until, that is, they shoot at a fat juicy loaded truck and nothing happens.

Which is wery strange :( .
Don't they have the same MGs as MG platoons have?

RE: Tankettes - How Useful in CS? - Kool Kat - 03-24-2010

Gents:

Again, from my readings on the Italian invasion of Ethiopia, the Italians utilized their tankettes as direct infantry support. These tiny tanks were considered armored mobile MG pillboxes!

There were also a few accounts in which the Ethiopian troops ambushed and put out of action several tankettes... in some cases by Ethiopians who crept up to the AFVs and fired through the weapon slits in the armor! :eek1:

Again, I find tankettes best utilized in CS as scouts, recon, and to target loaded transport and HQ units.

RE: Tankettes - How Useful in CS? - Mike Abberton - 03-24-2010

From the way I understand it, unit attack factors depend on more than just weapon type. It also includes things like weapon mount, ease of use, etc.

Tankettes were generally undermanned (two men typically), noisy, hot, miserable weapons platforms with limited visibility and aiming aids. A MG in the hands of a competent crew of 5 or 6 men (as was common in a heavy weapons platoon HMG, at least for the Germans), would be much more flexible and effective than the identical weapon on a tankette. Therefore we get different AF's for different applications of the same weapon. At least that is what I understood the reasoning to be.

Mike

RE: Tankettes - How Useful in CS? - Montana Grizz - 03-24-2010

I have several platoons of tankettes in a scenario I am playing.

Besides spotters, I have been using them to block roads while moving loaded trucks. They are very fast and can be used as fodder to be followed by med. tanks.

Pat

RE: Tankettes - How Useful in CS? - John Given - 03-24-2010

(03-24-2010, 07:24 AM)Montana Grizz Wrote: I have several platoons of tankettes in a scenario I am playing.

Besides spotters, I have been using them to block roads while moving loaded trucks. They are very fast and can be used as fodder to be followed by med. tanks.

Pat

That's how they are usually going to be used Pat.

But in a pinch, if the enemy has poor security or simply a lack of units to chase them (or simply does not feel threatened enough by them to care) they can act as a "poor mans armored car" by getting into rear areas and wreaking havoc on transports by way of overruns. They can also be used to spot for artillery of course.

In addition, the Italians have a tankette with a nice AT gun on it that can take out enemy light armor, + transports and anything defenseless it can catch. They're rare though.

I've also heard, once or twice, that Italy was working on an amphibious version of one of its tankettes, but abandoned the project (perhaps due to time constraints? Or the fact that, in the deserts of North Africa, there isn't much water to cross to begin with). Would have been really cool if they made it though, because the allies have their Dukw APC's, the Germans their schwimmwagens, and the Japanese their amphibious light tanks.

RE: Tankettes - How Useful in CS? - Kool Kat - 03-25-2010

(03-24-2010, 09:05 PM)John Given Wrote: In addition, the Italians have a tankette with a nice AT gun on it that can take out enemy light armor, + transports and anything defenseless it can catch. They're rare though.

I've also heard, once or twice, that Italy was working on an amphibious version of one of its tankettes, but abandoned the project (perhaps due to time constraints? Or the fact that, in the deserts of North Africa, there isn't much water to cross to begin with). Would have been really cool if they made it though, because the allies have their Dukw APC's, the Germans their schwimmwagens, and the Japanese their amphibious light tanks.

Gents:

Yes indeed! :) The Italian CV-33 had several variant models... The "L3 cc" had a 20mm anti-tank rifle mounted in place of its normal MG... and the "L3 Lf" was a flamethrower tankette! :eek1: The flamethrower nozzle replaced the MG and the flame fuel was carried in an armored trailer towed by the AFV. In another version, the flame fuel was carried in a box-like storage tank above the engine compartment!! :eek1: :eek1: Can we all say... "BIG BANG" Theory here! :cheeky:

The "L3 Lf" flamethrower tankette is modeled in CS... not sure about the 20mm AT variant? :chin: