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Sword beach in N44 - Printable Version +- Forums (https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards) +-- Forum: The Firing Line (https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards/forumdisplay.php?fid=1) +--- Forum: Tiller Operational Campaigns (https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards/forumdisplay.php?fid=11) +--- Thread: Sword beach in N44 (/showthread.php?tid=66663) Pages:
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Sword beach in N44 - todk - 07-02-2014 Just played the 10 turn Sword Beach scenario in N44 as the British vs the AI. I won a major victory but it took me almost the whole game to take the German pillboxes just off the beach. When I assaulted with the commandos there was no effect ( 0/0). I read a history of the action and it said that major combat at the beach (not including the paras) was over by 8:00. That's turn two in the game. What am I missing here? Appreciate any light anyone can shed on this. Trying to get a handle on it. Thanks. RE: Sword beach in N44 - Volcano Man - 07-02-2014 Getting off Sword Beach revolves around a few things (most of these apply to all Allied beach landing areas too): 1) Look at the German line and find the "weakest link" --this is the hex in the line that has the least terrain provided advantage, and the lowest fortified bonus. This is usually a clear hex, with maybe a or Pillbox (instead of PILLBOX). 2) At the weakest link, bombard this with everything you can each turn. Battleships are the best there, sometimes aircraft with high hard attack can do something too, but for the most part (at least on Sword Beach), use your tanks and AT guns. 3) Clear the mines as best as possible and destroy the AT ditches (if any). 4) Withdraw the exhausted units to the beach hexes to the north, then bring in fresh reinforcements in the cleared space. 5) Continue doing #1-4 above, until you break in, then push infantry units through and beyond to keep clearing more space for reinforcements. 6) Now try to roll outward and take the fortifications on the sides of that break in point. Again pushing more infantry forward and bringing in more reinforcements. Personally, I would push your lowest quality infantry battalions forward to get them out of the way, so you can bring in and concentrate the more effective units. 7) Eventually you will expand outward and take each of the fortified hexes, but the one on the far right (in front of the commandos) is tough. For that one, you should isolate it first, and this will weaken the defenders, then repeatedly assault with the commandos after that. Before that, just keep the commandos where they are and sit and wait, or go around to he rear if you can take the pillbox next to that position. Hope that helps. :) RE: Sword beach in N44 - todk - 07-02-2014 Thanks Volcano for your post. A few points: essentially I did all that and it still took almost until sundown to take the pillboxes. I don't see any weak points in the German line as all 4 hexes adjacent to the beach are pillboxes - two of them in town/village. The only hexes adjacent to the British positions that are not occupied by Germans in pillboxes are on the extreme right of the British line where the commandos are and they are in German zocs. 1 hex is clear and the other is swamp. I did move a commando company into the zones of control and after a few turns isolated the pillbox and eventually that's what did it but my concern is about the historicity of the system. Historically the pillboxes were taken by, in game turns, turn 2 (8:00). I don't see this as being possible in the game since direct assaults don't seem to work on turn 1 or 2 - they result in very low casualties and even no casualties on either side let alone the taking of the positions. I would feel better about the system if it was at least possible for the historical result to happen. Also, on naval and air attack on the pillboxes/bunkers my experience is that 95% of the time the result is a "no effect" result and the other 5% of the time they may cause some fatigue. I think this is realistic ( although it seems that historically the allies thought they would have more effect) and in the game I use my naval/air to hit units not in pillboxes/bunkers. Would appreciate your thoughts on this. RE: Sword beach in N44 - Volcano Man - 07-02-2014 My thoughts are that the current manifestation of the N44 beach defenses is as good as its going to get. If you try to represent historical times that the individual defensive positions fell, then you end up weakening the entire position as a whole (there just isn't that level of control, either they (individual positions) hold too long or not long enough). The best you can hope for is the current situation where it takes a lot of effort to get off the beach, because this creates a historical overall situation in the campaigns. Not to mention, the individual beach landing sub scenarios become too easy. By that is just my opinion -- edit it as you think best. RE: Sword beach in N44 - todk - 07-02-2014 (07-02-2014, 06:11 AM)Volcano Man Wrote: My thoughts are that the current manifestation of the N44 beach defenses is as good as its going to get. If you try to represent historical times that the individual defensive positions fell, then you end up weakening the entire position as a whole (there just isn't that level of control, either they (individual positions) hold too long or not long enough). The best you can hope for is the current situation where it takes a lot of effort to get off the beach, because this creates a historical overall situation in the campaigns. Not to mention, the individual beach landing sub scenarios become too easy. RE: Sword beach in N44 - todk - 07-02-2014 I certainly understand that playability in a game is a very important factor. It would indeed make for a dog of a 10 turn scenario if the shouting was over on the 2nd turn. Were I the scenario designer I might thing about adding a note explaining this to the perspective players. That's in the 10 turn scenario, in the full campaign game, though, it seems to me that this would unhistoricly give the Germans much more time to marshal their reserves. But that's just my two cents worth. Thank you again for your response. RE: Sword beach in N44 - Volcano Man - 07-02-2014 Well, it depends on what you are talking about here. If you are talking about the standard game, which at one point I assumed you were, then I don't recall how the defenses are setup anymore. However, in the _Alt scenarios (which is sounds more like that is what you are referring to), the defense is *purposely* setup the way it is and very well playtested to make for a better (more historical overall advance rate) HTH campaign. It intentionally allows the Germans to form a defensive position to provide historical resistance, because almost everyone can tell you that in the original game (at the time) a human vs. human campaign was too easy as Allies, since you can rush inland far too quickly. I recall the original game where the Allies would break out of the beaches in the non-bocage east, and then are able to threaten Caen some weeks before what is historical. The Germans have no hope but to fall back to the bocage, which is totally a-historical behavior of course. So, in that regard it is all intentional in the _Alt scenarios and tailored to the campaign. From there the situation is cut into all the smaller scenarios to allow people to practice the landings before playing the _Alt campaign. So with that in mind, they were never really edited to be "balanced" as small scenarios, although I am sure the VP levels were adjusted at various points. But besides that, like I said, you are free to make your own changes. The _Alt scenarios for N44 are pretty much where I think they need to be after all these years. ;) RE: Sword beach in N44 - todk - 07-02-2014 I am talking about the standard scenario. Your notes on the campaign issues is well taken. Make that "your notes. ..ARE well taken". :-) RE: Sword beach in N44 - Liquid_Sky - 07-03-2014 You want to use your commando's for infiltration. They can move through empty ZoC's..allowing the other troops to follow You want to use AT-guns, Tanks to shoot at the bunkers/pillboxes to disrupt the occupants. You can also bring paratroopers over Pegasus bridge to threaten from behind, although that is risky. Assault with as large a force as possible. It may seem disheartening to see 12/9 as a casualty, but each time you assault you may disrupt the defender, and it causes fatigue to build up, making it even easier later to disrupt them. Chain assault. Use two battalions...assault. Use two more...assault. Oh, and don't forget to use your engineers to blow the AT ditches. They wont let you assault. You can take an engineer off of mine clearing duty, blow the ditch, then put him back on. Did I mention shoot your tanks/at guns at the bunkers? I am sitting on the fence about using them to assault..I usually just shoot. For added fun, play the Omaha scenario, and get off that beach. RE: Sword beach in N44 - todk - 07-05-2014 Thanks for the note. I did use the infiltration tactic and eventually it worked. Sorry to beat a dead horse here but I am just trying to find a way to take the bunkers by turn 3 as they were in the actual battle. When the commandos assaulted the result was "no - effect, no - effect" so I take that to mean that the assault was aborted before it got started. Maybe the AT ditches held them up as you pointed out - will try that out and maybe that will do the trick along with your other suggestions. Thanks |
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