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Moscow 42 Default vs. VMs Optional Rules - Printable Version +- Forums (https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards) +-- Forum: The Firing Line (https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards/forumdisplay.php?fid=1) +--- Forum: Tiller Operational Campaigns (https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards/forumdisplay.php?fid=11) +--- Thread: Moscow 42 Default vs. VMs Optional Rules (/showthread.php?tid=69819) |
Moscow 42 Default vs. VMs Optional Rules - BigDuke66 - 07-16-2016 Hi as M42 seems to be similar to VMs in so far as they use the same database, I wonder why M42 doesn't use the same Optional Rules. If this is the latest correct OR setting for VMs alternate scenarios: https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards/showthread.php?tid=38745 then the ORs differ only in that M42 doesn't use counterbattery and the Alternate Assault rule, but the latter seems to be rather important and has a bigger impact on gameplay from what I can say. Besides an official answer, did anyone play M42 with VMs Optional Rules? RE: Moscow 42 Default vs. VMs Optional Rules - BigDuke66 - 07-22-2016 Just to get more light on this I compared M42 the old Moscow 41. The main difference in the German divisions seems to be that M42 now has the Anti-tank & infantry-gun assets of an infantry regiment as as separate units and not added to each infantry battalions values. Now it is interesting to see that the ALT scenarios of M41 should be played with the Alternate Assault Rule while M42 has this rule not as default. Just compare some numbers: M41 400 men infantry battalion has an Assault value of 2400 with the Alternate Assault Rule. M42 400 men infantry battalion has an Assault value of 800 with the Alternate Assault Rule, but 4800 without the Alternate Assault Rule. So either the M42 infantry battalion is just a third as strong or twice as strong in assaults compared to M41. It's hard to believe that the Alternate Assault Rule should not be used as that makes the infantry twice as strong in M42 compared to M41 while still having extra Anti-tank & infantry-gun assets that both give the infantry ranged Anti-tank fire, that was something the M41 infantry regiment was not able to do and by that was not able to disrupted any assaulter before they assaulted. RE: Moscow 42 Default vs. VMs Optional Rules - Mr Grumpy - 07-22-2016 (07-16-2016, 02:20 PM)BigDuke66 Wrote: Hi It is worth noting that the optional rules (OR) for all the PzC titles differ from one title to a next and represent each designers selections on which OR's are best suited for that particular title, Volcano Man OR's are standard across all titles that he has created edited _Alt versions of the stock scenarios contained in each title. So you will not find a title where the stock OR's match the _Alt OR's and this is purely down to the different approach by each designer, as VM makes clear in his notes he is not suggesting the stock OR's are wrong, but for his edited _Alt scenarios with their specific OOB's/values he feels the _Alt OR's work best. RE: Moscow 42 Default vs. VMs Optional Rules - BigDuke66 - 07-23-2016 I guess at first one must recognize that the stock scenarios of older games(I guess from the HPS era) never used the McNamara DB and because of that the use of certain rules was not needed or could have been counterproductive. M42 used the McNamara DB from the start and it also used default rules that almost matched those that are needed for the ALT scenarios of VM. The 2 differences are just the counterbattery and the Alternate Assault rule. Regrading the counterbattery rule, I think it could be an error because the PDT files have values set for the counterbattry rule, so it's hard to believe that these settings are done but the rules for it not used. Regarding the Alternate Assault, well that is a drastic setting because the hard attack value of the German infantry is just 2 while its assault value is 12, a big difference that surely has an impact on assaults. I think the designer rather stayed on the save side not using that rule, but later things were tried to make the Germans less a problem, first higher Russian HQ values to keep the Russians driving and after that by lowering the max unit size of German units, the later setting is now default while the moral change was dropped. My approach currently is that I would use the counterbattery and also the Alternate Assault rule. The counterbattery because of the fact that is was a normal part of the artillery to be able to do counterbattery fire. The Alternate Assault rule I would try too, I hope that the more AT assets will lower the amount of assaults by the Russian tanks or at least lower their numbers, but still give them a better chance in assaults. So I hope that it evens out regarding play balance. One must not forget that the tanks already have a hardcoded rule that they get a penalty if assaulting without proper infantry support, so in exchange to that hardcoded rule using the alternate assault rule and by that depicting the lack of infantry AT capabilities is worth a try. RE: Moscow 42 Default vs. VMs Optional Rules - BigDuke66 - 08-09-2016 Besides the rules mentioned, some test showed that more is necessary because of the asymmetric force layout. I compared M42 to M41 and while in M41 the battalion was the main unit and companies were an exception often only depicting recon units that had no real combat value, it is different in M42. In M42 companies are much more common, no German infantry regiment without the usual AT & IG companies, no Panzer Divisions without companies depicting the various tanks or companies of infantry in APC whiel the rest of the battalions go only by truck, Aufklärungs-Abteilung(recon element of a division) now usually with 3 companies depicting the various movement types of horse/bicycle/motorized and on some divisions even as armored cars and motorcycles. The problem now is that this leads to battalions going against companies in direct, indirect fire & air strikes. AFAIK the PC series has nothing to even the ground here like the Steel Panther series has were smaller units get less easy to kill, but I guess that is OK on the scale that is depicted in the PC series. Still the problem is that one can easily kill companies in M42 that in M41 were part of a battalion and by that were all but easy to kill. Maybe others can say something about it but some tests showed that especially the AT companies can simply be killed by bring artillery on them for some turns, and that is seems rather silly when you have a handful of guns stacked with an infantry battalion and the infantry goes unharmed while the AT assets get wiped out. Only solution to me is to use the some alternated optional rules: - Alternative Indirect Fire Resolution - Alternative Air Strike Resolution - Alternative Direct Fire Resolution The first 2 rules will distribute the fire value of an attack to all units in the ratio of their strength. The 3rd will still allow selecting targets but the fire value of the selected target, while being over proportional compared to its strength ratio in the hex, will bring much less fire onto small companies. Overall these 3 should help to let companies survive longer. |
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