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Help understanding digging in - Printable Version +- Forums (https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards) +-- Forum: The Firing Line (https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards/forumdisplay.php?fid=1) +--- Forum: Tiller Operational Campaigns (https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards/forumdisplay.php?fid=11) +--- Thread: Help understanding digging in (/showthread.php?tid=71436) |
Help understanding digging in - nhill40 - 02-08-2018 Pardon yet another noob question, please. :) I feel like the concept of digging in is an important one to fully grasp, but I don't think I'm fully there despite multiple scenario play-throughs. I think I understand the basic concepts: a non-HQ unit which has not moved/fired that turn can opt to "dig in". If attacked while in this state, they will defend at a penalized rate...but, based on a calculated percentage, they may also succeed in fortifying the hex, which will have a defensive bonus. If the unit subsequently vacates the text, the hex still maintains its fortified status. If another unit subsequently moves into the hex, it will enjoy some defensive benefit, but not as much as it would/will if it "digs in". A unit that is set to "dig in" within a hex that had previously been fortified will have a higher chance of succeeding in the digging in operation. So, that's what I think I have a good grasp on. A few finer details that I'm much less confident in: There is apparently a benefit to having engineers in the hex with you in terms of raising your chances of successfully digging in. Does the engineering unit need to also be set to "dig in", or do they just need to be stacked along with the unit doing the digging in? Also, let's say 2 (non-engineer) units are occupying the same hex. One is set to "digging in", the other is not. At the end of the turn, it's determined that the unit set to dig in was successful. The stack is subsequently attacked. The dug in unit then enjoys full benefit of having dug in, but what about the unit who is just hanging out in the hex? Do they get any benefit? RE: Help understanding digging in - Mr Grumpy - 02-09-2018 No problem with the noob questions, It really helps to enjoy these games if you understand how the mechanics. So just to recap, if an IP or trench is created any unit in that hex will get a defensive benefit as you say, if that hex is subsequently left empty then is considered vacant and the defensive benefit is halved to any unit that then occupies the hex. The full defensive benefit can be restored if another unit makes another successful digging in attempt, however the fact that there has been a successful digging in attempt in that hex does not impact on making any future digging attempts more likely to succeed, in that you are mistaken.  The engineers do need to be set to digging in, they don't improve the chances of a non engineer unit they are stacked with making a successful digging in attempt, but have triple the chance of a successful digging in attempt themselves. In answer to your last question, once a successful digging in attempt is made any units that occupy that hex get the defensive benefit regardless of which unit actually made the successful attempt. Hope that helps........... RE: Help understanding digging in - nhill40 - 02-09-2018 Umm...yeah...this helps a ton! Thank you for taking the time to read and correct my understanding! I just re-read the manual blurb - I think it does a good job conveying some corner cases but, in my experience at least, failed to convey the general gameplay mechanic. Let me lay out what I think is a halfway realistic sequence of events to check my understanding: - An engineer unit is stacked together with another unit. The engineer unit hasn't fired/moved this turn, and it get set to "digging in". - If this hex is subsequently attacked while the engineer unit is still "digging in", the engineer unit fights back at half strength, but the other unit is not affected. - Let's say the engineer unit's "digging in" succeeds. Now, both the units in that hex enjoy the full defensive benefit of that operation. - The engineer unit subsequently vacates the hex, but the other unit remains. This other unit still enjoys the full defensive benefit of being dug in. - The other unit now also vacates the hex, leaving the hex completely empty. The fortification is now considered vacated. - Any units that subsequently move into this same hex on a later turn will receive a reduced benefit from that hex previously being fortified (unless one of these newly arrived units also successfully performs a "digging in" operation. The fact that the hex was previously fortified has no bearing on whether these new units succeeds in their "digging in" operation). Essentially, once a hex is successfully fortified via a "digging in" operation, as long as that hex is continuously occupied, it's a full defensive benefit for any unit occupying that hex. Sorry, hopefully I'm not belaboring the point, but it seems to me these are the sort of details that could be the difference between victory and defeat (especially in a defensively-oriented scenario). RE: Help understanding digging in - Ricky B - 02-09-2018 Yes, the hex will retain the TRENCH or IP status (full effectiveness/capitalized) as long as a unit continuously occupies it. It doesn't matter what unit is left there, including an HQ, etc. And you hit on a point glossed over earlier. The hex drops to a Trench/Ip as soon as all units exit - it doesn't happen when a unit moves into the vacated hex. So during a turn, if you move everything out, then move a unit in, the fortifications will have dropped in effectiveness. On the other hand, if a scenario starts with unoccupied TRENCH or IPs - pre built fortifications set by the scenario designer - they will retain their full effectiveness when a unit moves in. Rick RE: Help understanding digging in - Mr Grumpy - 02-10-2018 No problem at all, always happy to help!  As Rick says you have now grasped how the mechanics work, unfortunately the rules are not always very clear or don't cover all situations so in those cases this forum is the place to ask questions as we must have seen every situation possible for every rule in the 20 years these games have been around. Rick also raises a good point that in some scenarios there will be IP's/TRENCH's/BUNKERS/PILLBOX's unoccupied at scenario start and at full strength, in that situation the mechanics we discussed above only come into play once a unit enters such a hex.
RE: Help understanding digging in - nhill40 - 02-10-2018 You guys are great, thank you again - this is very helpful. The manual certainly isn't terrible by any stretch, but I've found it does have a tendency to deep-dive some relatively arcane corner cases while at the same time glossing over what I feel are some very core game mechanics...that can make a noob's life challenging! ;) I predict my next question might perhaps be on cavalry (I'm looking at France '14) as I am running into additional confusion there, but I see that the notes have extensive comments on cavalry so I want to make sure I give those a good read-through first. RE: Help understanding digging in - Mr Grumpy - 02-12-2018 (02-10-2018, 05:01 AM)nhill40 Wrote: I predict my next question might perhaps be on cavalry (I'm looking at France '14) as I am running into additional confusion there, but I see that the notes have extensive comments on cavalry so I want to make sure I give those a good read-through first. Indeed cavalry are handled differently in the FWWC series than the cavalry units you will find in some PzC titles, as you say it is best to read the designer notes and my article on the differences between FWWC and PzC might be useful as well. https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards/showthread.php?tid=68369 It is worth noting that although FWWC and PzC look similar they have some very subtle differences to the game engine that can have a huge effect on game play.
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