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Enfilade (and routing in general...) [Napoleonic Battles] - Printable Version +- Forums (https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards) +-- Forum: The Firing Line (https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards/forumdisplay.php?fid=1) +--- Forum: Black Powder & Cold Steel (https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards/forumdisplay.php?fid=163) +--- Thread: Enfilade (and routing in general...) [Napoleonic Battles] (/showthread.php?tid=73680) Pages:
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Enfilade (and routing in general...) [Napoleonic Battles] - Mowgli - 07-21-2020 The manual is not very clear on this important topic. WHAT THE MANUAL SAYS According to the manual p.23, an infantry unit in line formation that takes fire from the sides or rear (not from the frontal cone extending from the two hexes in front) is enfiladed. The effect of enfilating fire is increased by the scneario's enfilade fire modifier. In addition, the manual (p. 33) states that a unit suffering enfilading fire has its morale reduced by 2 for the morale check (!). So, by reading the manual, one would think that a unit suffering casualties immediately checks to see whether it needs to conduct a morale test and, if so, becomes either disordered (on a pass) or routed (on a fail). Just like in other Tiller games. If it has been shot from the sides and has suffered enough casualties to undergo a morale test, chances for routs are highly increased. OBSERVATION IN THE GAME However, that's not how it seems to work in the actual game. In the game, units only rout (= take morale tests?) at the start of their own turn, not "during" the action in direct response to individual fire actions. QUESTION So I wonder: Do units conduct only ONE SINGLE morale test per turn, which takes into account the accumulated effects from the last turn? Or does the game conduct morale tests per individual fire action (as in other Tiller games), but doesn't show the effects immediately. I.e. the game would remember the results and present them to us only at the start of our next turn ("this unit routs because it failed one of its (many) morale tests last turn")? I'm really confused. In particular, it would be interesting to know if a single pesky skirmisher unit (whose fire alone would have never triggered a morale test) can "combine" with the fire of other (non-enfilading) units to achieve a -2 morale malus the target unit. RE: Enfilade (and routing in general...) [Napoleonic Battles] - Mowgli - 07-21-2020 Some hypotheses (judging from Bayonets on the Rhine): In your own turn, you cannot disorder or rout an enemy unit by means of fire power. If you inflict sufficient casualties on an enemy unit, the unit will test for morale (and become disordered or routed eventually) at the start of its next turn. So the effects of your firepower on the enemy are always "delayed". Makes it difficult to hit the enemy hard (and immadiately exploit a gap) by means of fire power. Your own units, by contrast, can very well become disordered or routed during your own turn due to enemy fire (enemy opportunity fire). Judging from the detailed (not "on map") combat results, it seems as if skirmisher units do not receive any firepower-bonus when enfilading enemy infantry units (I guess they also don't cause the -2 morale penalty). Ordinary infantry units get the bonus (20% in Bayonets on the Rhine). (Side note: Units have no limit on how often they can opportunity-fire, but the fire power per opportunity fire action is only 50% of the normal fire power. This is not mentioned anywhere in the manual). (Also missing in the manual: Units that rout at the start of the turn immediately move their full movement allowance away from the enemy - units in line change to column for this purpose; skirmishers stay in skirmish formation; In the following turns, routed units can be moved normally, but only at half their ordinary movement allowance and they may not be moved closer to enemy units). RE: Enfilade (and routing in general...) [Napoleonic Battles] - Gary McClellan - 07-21-2020 Yeah, the rout test is always at the beginning of your turn. All of those extra modifiers are "stored" and applied on the test in question. So, a valid tactic is to use a weaker attack in enfilade along with a more powerful frontal attack to trigger losses. RE: Enfilade (and routing in general...) [Napoleonic Battles] - Mowgli - 07-21-2020 (07-21-2020, 08:08 AM)Gary McClellan Wrote: Yeah, the rout test is always at the beginning of your turn. All of those extra modifiers are "stored" and applied on the test in question. So, a valid tactic is to use a weaker attack in enfilade along with a more powerful frontal attack to trigger losses. Thanks a lot for your answer! So it's one test only. That's very interesting. Do you know if units in skirmish formation can cause the -2 morale penalty if they enfilade an opponent? As mentioned above, it seems as if skirmishers do NOT benefit from the *1.2 firepower bonus for enfilading opponents, so my suspicion is that they don't cause the -2 morale malus either? RE: Enfilade (and routing in general...) [Napoleonic Battles] - Mowgli - 07-23-2020 EDIT: Please ignore/delete. RE: Enfilade (and routing in general...) [Napoleonic Battles] - The_General - 07-24-2020 (07-21-2020, 03:56 PM)Mowgli Wrote: Do you know if units in skirmish formation can cause the -2 morale penalty if they enfilade an opponent? As mentioned above, it seems as if skirmishers do NOT benefit from the *1.2 firepower bonus for enfilading opponents, so my suspicion is that they don't cause the -2 morale malus either? It's a very good question. In ACW games it's easy to see if a unit received an enfilade fire because then his quality is highlighted in yellow. Unfortunately there is no such a thing in Nappy games. RE: Enfilade (and routing in general...) [Napoleonic Battles] - agmoss99 - 07-24-2020 (07-24-2020, 05:02 AM)The_General Wrote:(07-21-2020, 03:56 PM)Mowgli Wrote: Do you know if units in skirmish formation can cause the -2 morale penalty if they enfilade an opponent? As mentioned above, it seems as if skirmishers do NOT benefit from the *1.2 firepower bonus for enfilading opponents, so my suspicion is that they don't cause the -2 morale malus either? I think they do not. RE: Enfilade (and routing in general...) [Napoleonic Battles] - Mowgli - 07-29-2020 (07-24-2020, 05:05 AM)agmoss99 Wrote:(07-24-2020, 05:02 AM)The_General Wrote:(07-21-2020, 03:56 PM)Mowgli Wrote: Do you know if units in skirmish formation can cause the -2 morale penalty if they enfilade an opponent? As mentioned above, it seems as if skirmishers do NOT benefit from the *1.2 firepower bonus for enfilading opponents, so my suspicion is that they don't cause the -2 morale malus either? I'm not even sure whether the -2 morale malus for being enfiladed works at all. I just had a few units enfilade-fire on a unit of quality C, disordered, no leader, flanks not secure. At the start of its turn, the target unit was forced to undergo a morale test (the casualties versus size-"stress test" failed). To my surprise, the unit passed its morale test. According to the manual, this should not be possible: base unit quality C - 1 disordered - 2 enfiladed = quality F quality F = 0% chance to pass One explanation would be that the enfilade malus on morale is smaller than what the manual says. The second explanation would be that the "enfilade" modifier is only valid in morale tests caused by opportunity fire (to determine whether a unit gets disordered), not in morale tests at the start of the turn (to determine whether a unit routs). If this was true, enfilade fire would have a higher chance to disrupt advancing units, but not a higher chance to rout them (at least not directly, only indirectly via increased casualties from the +20% bonus that non-skirmishers get on their fire value). I guess there would be a good reason for this, namely to preven the cheesy tactic of taking an "enfilade-potshot" which causes hardly any casualties, just in order to get the -2 morale malus on the enemy. If the malus is only valid in "opportunity fire"-morale tests, then the morale test is only triggered if significant casualties are caused by the very same fire action. A ineffective "potshot" will not cause a morale test and not profit from the -2 morale modifier. The third explanation would be that the malus doesn't exist at all. RE: Enfilade (and routing in general...) [Napoleonic Battles] - Mowgli - 08-01-2020 Okay, so I found that there is a dedicated info text ("ENFILADED") written on a unit card when a unit is affected by enfilade fire in the "1776 Campaign" (American War of Independence) title. Also, a unit with this status has its morale written in yellow (=lowered). So it is unlikely that this info text would be missing if the malus applied in the Napoleonic titles. Therefore, also based on the experience described in my post above, I guess that the enfiladed morale malus does not exist in the Napoleonic titles (at least in Leipzig and Republican Bayonets on the Rhine which are the two I own). So it seems as if enfilade fire just gives you the +20% bonus on firepower (skirmishers do not get this bonus), but has no special effect on the opponent's morale. The manuals for the Napoleonic titles are just very confusing. And they're missing very essential stuff (e.g. disorder from stacking incompatible units). Oddly enough, of all the manuals I've seen so far for Tiller's premodern tactical series, the "Renaissance" one is the most complete one. RE: Enfilade (and routing in general...) [Napoleonic Battles] - BigDuke66 - 08-04-2020 If playing in turns fire effects get afaik applied right away per fire combat. So for other moral checks the -2 modifier might not be applied. |
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