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F 40 Gold: Expiring Objectives - Printable Version +- Forums (https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards) +-- Forum: The Firing Line (https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards/forumdisplay.php?fid=1) +--- Forum: Tiller Operational Campaigns (https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards/forumdisplay.php?fid=11) +--- Thread: F 40 Gold: Expiring Objectives (/showthread.php?tid=75553) Pages:
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F 40 Gold: Expiring Objectives - jonnymacbrown - 05-22-2022 I am playing the 259 turns campaign 5010-01B3. I notice there are NO EXPIRING OBJECTIVES listed on the daily command report. According to the scenario briefing, expiring objectives are a key component. Are my opponent and I wasting our time here? Should we just stow it away and wait for the update? Please let us know as the turns are very time-consuming. WE both LOVE the game. jonny RE: F 40 Gold: Expiring Objectives - Outlaw Josey Wales - 05-23-2022 Did it mention expiring objectives? I don't think all scenarios have them. RE: F 40 Gold: Expiring Objectives - jonnymacbrown - 05-23-2022 (05-23-2022, 10:14 PM)Outlaw Josey Wales Wrote: Did it mention expiring objectives? I don't think all scenarios have them.Yes they are integral to the game. The 259 turn scenarios have them as they are listed with S following the names on the location chart. But there is no mention of WHEN they expire as in F 14. Also, as mentioned, the 259 turn campaign daily command report doesn't list any expiring objectives BUT the Dunkirk evacuation scenarios DO. The F 14 expiring objectives are all given a date by which they expire as are the Dunkirk objectives. Making a move in this game takes up a good part of a day, at least. I want to know if we are wasting our time because without expiring objectives the 259 turn scenarios don't function properly. jonny 
RE: F 40 Gold: Expiring Objectives - LordDeadwood - 05-24-2022 (05-23-2022, 11:36 PM)jonnymacbrown Wrote:I don't have access to the game right now, but I did work a lot with the file for this scenario not too long ago. I started a game of this last year; unfortunately my opponent had to drop out. Anyway, I'm wondering if the locations with the "S" following their names are the "surrender" locations? The scenario file has a code that identifies those locations in the Netherlands and Belgium. NONE of the objectives have a turn expiration in the scenario file (looked at it just now). If all of the locations with the "S" following them are in the Netherlands and Belgium, then they are almost certainly the surrender objectives. The expiration issue may be an oversight, but as it stands now the scenario does not have any expiration on the objectives. I should clarify I'm only looking at the "B4" scenario file.(05-23-2022, 10:14 PM)Outlaw Josey Wales Wrote: Did it mention expiring objectives? I don't think all scenarios have them.Yes they are integral to the game. The 259 turn scenarios have them as they are listed with S following the names on the location chart. But there is no mention of WHEN they expire as in F 14. Also, as mentioned, the 259 turn campaign daily command report doesn't list any expiring objectives BUT the Dunkirk evacuation scenarios DO. The F 14 expiring objectives are all given a date by which they expire as are the Dunkirk objectives. Making a move in this game takes up a good part of a day, at least. I want to know if we are wasting our time because without expiring objectives the 259 turn scenarios don't function properly. jonny RE: F 40 Gold: Expiring Objectives - jonnymacbrown - 05-24-2022 (05-24-2022, 12:20 AM)LordDeadwood Wrote:Yes, they are all in Belgium and Netherlands. What are the implications here? When does Belgian surrender indicate an "automatic Axis minor victory" as stated in the scenario notes? With no expiration this can happen on turn 250. The surrender hexes seem to be scattered about like pixie dust too. Neither Amsterdam, den Haag, nor Rotterdam count towards Dutch surrender. All these things need to be known to both players. Obviously very great research went into these scenarios. But without even the most rudimentary play-testing it's all for naught. jonny(05-23-2022, 11:36 PM)jonnymacbrown Wrote:I don't have access to the game right now, but I did work a lot with the file for this scenario not too long ago. I started a game of this last year; unfortunately my opponent had to drop out. Anyway, I'm wondering if the locations with the "S" following their names are the "surrender" locations? The scenario file has a code that identifies those locations in the Netherlands and Belgium. NONE of the objectives have a turn expiration in the scenario file (looked at it just now). If all of the locations with the "S" following them are in the Netherlands and Belgium, then they are almost certainly the surrender objectives. The expiration issue may be an oversight, but as it stands now the scenario does not have any expiration on the objectives. I should clarify I'm only looking at the "B4" scenario file.(05-23-2022, 10:14 PM)Outlaw Josey Wales Wrote: Did it mention expiring objectives? I don't think all scenarios have them.Yes they are integral to the game. The 259 turn scenarios have them as they are listed with S following the names on the location chart. But there is no mention of WHEN they expire as in F 14. Also, as mentioned, the 259 turn campaign daily command report doesn't list any expiring objectives BUT the Dunkirk evacuation scenarios DO. The F 14 expiring objectives are all given a date by which they expire as are the Dunkirk objectives. Making a move in this game takes up a good part of a day, at least. I want to know if we are wasting our time because without expiring objectives the 259 turn scenarios don't function properly. jonny RE: F 40 Gold: Expiring Objectives - jonnymacbrown - 05-24-2022 (05-24-2022, 01:14 AM)jonnymacbrown Wrote:The next key question is: Is it possible to add expiration dates to the objective hexes mid-game? Or at all?(05-24-2022, 12:20 AM)LordDeadwood Wrote:Yes, they are all in Belgium and Netherlands. What are the implications here? When does Belgian surrender indicate an "automatic Axis minor victory" as stated in the scenario notes? With no expiration this can happen on turn 250. The surrender hexes seem to be scattered about like pixie dust too. Neither Amsterdam, den Haag, nor Rotterdam count towards Dutch surrender. All these things need to be known to both players. Obviously very great research went into these scenarios. But without even the most rudimentary play-testing it's all for naught. jonny(05-23-2022, 11:36 PM)jonnymacbrown Wrote:I don't have access to the game right now, but I did work a lot with the file for this scenario not too long ago. I started a game of this last year; unfortunately my opponent had to drop out. Anyway, I'm wondering if the locations with the "S" following their names are the "surrender" locations? The scenario file has a code that identifies those locations in the Netherlands and Belgium. NONE of the objectives have a turn expiration in the scenario file (looked at it just now). If all of the locations with the "S" following them are in the Netherlands and Belgium, then they are almost certainly the surrender objectives. The expiration issue may be an oversight, but as it stands now the scenario does not have any expiration on the objectives. I should clarify I'm only looking at the "B4" scenario file.(05-23-2022, 10:14 PM)Outlaw Josey Wales Wrote: Did it mention expiring objectives? I don't think all scenarios have them.Yes they are integral to the game. The 259 turn scenarios have them as they are listed with S following the names on the location chart. But there is no mention of WHEN they expire as in F 14. Also, as mentioned, the 259 turn campaign daily command report doesn't list any expiring objectives BUT the Dunkirk evacuation scenarios DO. The F 14 expiring objectives are all given a date by which they expire as are the Dunkirk objectives. Making a move in this game takes up a good part of a day, at least. I want to know if we are wasting our time because without expiring objectives the 259 turn scenarios don't function properly. jonny RE: F 40 Gold: Expiring Objectives - LordDeadwood - 05-24-2022 (05-24-2022, 01:51 AM)jonnymacbrown Wrote:You could add expiration dates to the objective hexes by editing the scenario file. To do it mid-game, you would have to edit the .bte file, but only if it is not encrypted.(05-24-2022, 01:14 AM)jonnymacbrown Wrote:The next key question is: Is it possible to add expiration dates to the objective hexes mid-game? Or at all?(05-24-2022, 12:20 AM)LordDeadwood Wrote:Yes, they are all in Belgium and Netherlands. What are the implications here? When does Belgian surrender indicate an "automatic Axis minor victory" as stated in the scenario notes? With no expiration this can happen on turn 250. The surrender hexes seem to be scattered about like pixie dust too. Neither Amsterdam, den Haag, nor Rotterdam count towards Dutch surrender. All these things need to be known to both players. Obviously very great research went into these scenarios. But without even the most rudimentary play-testing it's all for naught. jonny(05-23-2022, 11:36 PM)jonnymacbrown Wrote:I don't have access to the game right now, but I did work a lot with the file for this scenario not too long ago. I started a game of this last year; unfortunately my opponent had to drop out. Anyway, I'm wondering if the locations with the "S" following their names are the "surrender" locations? The scenario file has a code that identifies those locations in the Netherlands and Belgium. NONE of the objectives have a turn expiration in the scenario file (looked at it just now). If all of the locations with the "S" following them are in the Netherlands and Belgium, then they are almost certainly the surrender objectives. The expiration issue may be an oversight, but as it stands now the scenario does not have any expiration on the objectives. I should clarify I'm only looking at the "B4" scenario file.(05-23-2022, 10:14 PM)Outlaw Josey Wales Wrote: Did it mention expiring objectives? I don't think all scenarios have them.Yes they are integral to the game. The 259 turn scenarios have them as they are listed with S following the names on the location chart. But there is no mention of WHEN they expire as in F 14. Also, as mentioned, the 259 turn campaign daily command report doesn't list any expiring objectives BUT the Dunkirk evacuation scenarios DO. The F 14 expiring objectives are all given a date by which they expire as are the Dunkirk objectives. Making a move in this game takes up a good part of a day, at least. I want to know if we are wasting our time because without expiring objectives the 259 turn scenarios don't function properly. jonny RE: F 40 Gold: Expiring Objectives - Mike Prucha - 05-24-2022 There are not meant to be expiring objectives in the F40 campaign. Early versions of the campaign included them in the Ardennes but this was struck during development. The issue is with the description, not the scenario. RE: F 40 Gold: Expiring Objectives - Mike Prucha - 05-24-2022 The surrender hexes are not labeled as surrender when playing with FoW. This is intentional - neither player is supposed to know exactly what sequence of events will cause Belgian or Dutch surrender. If they were all labeled than the Allied player would simply cluster around the surrender objectives. The surrender objectives, for the most part, do not correspond to major cities. RE: F 40 Gold: Expiring Objectives - jonnymacbrown - 05-28-2022 (05-24-2022, 07:26 AM)Mike Prucha Wrote: The surrender hexes are not labeled as surrender when playing with FoW. This is intentional - neither player is supposed to know exactly what sequence of events will cause Belgian or Dutch surrender. If they were all labeled than the Allied player would simply cluster around the surrender objectives. The surrender objectives, for the most part, do not correspond to major cities. Ok Mike, thanks for replying. Here's my question: If the Belgian surrender hexes don't have an expiration then can't the German player, defeated in France, return to Belgium and upon his retreat, induce its surrender and achieve an automatic minor victory on turn 250 or so? According to the scenario description he can! I don't think any player will intentionally try to do this but it could conceivably happen. Myself and many of my opponents like to play out campaign scenarios to their completion, so this is a real possibility. Also it seems like Belgian surrender is, sooner or later, going to happen for sure. Doesn't that mean that the German player is guaranteed an automatic minor victory? Again thanks for all the hard work. This is a terrific scenario, I'm currently playing it and can't figure things out. jonny 
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