Ammunition Loadouts in SPWW2

[Narwan]

Automatic weapons in the game are considered to fire short bursts of up to five rounds. The 6 shots per turn of play (2-3 minutes) date back to the original code and assume that a unit could fire that many AIMED shots at the enemy (slightly more when experience gets really high).
Translating the 2-3 minute duration of a turn to the amount of rounds that could by fired using z-fire doesn't work. It's still just 6 bursts of up to 5 rounds.

The ammo load for troops is probably less than it was in reality. A rifleman in the game carries 90 rounds while often the standard load was up to 120 rounds. And that's standard, troops often loaded up with extra ammo before they went in. Same with the lmg, 80 rounds are 4 boxes with belts. Standard for most squads. Then take into account ammo runners that were often available for extra small arms ammo and the actual loadout is the game is less then if often was. It's a good average though.

Troops not always had the max ammo load off course, especially when conducting successive defensive actions but that's what scenario's are for. For generated battles the default values are what you get.

Narwan

PS those rockets were carried on sleds (sometimes small wheeled carriages)

[Vesku]

90 rounds while often the standard load was up to 120 rounds

PS those rockets were carried on sleds (sometimes small wheeled carriages)

90 rounds is only 18 bursts of 5 rounds. Double that and count in some runner carried ammo and you still don't get to the numbers in the game for assault rifles.

I've seen pictures of troops carrying those rockets and they did have some sort of sled or frame which they dragged, not an easy job even with that.

[Narwan]

No, the 90 rounds are for riflemen. The ammo for lmg's is 90 (or 80) bursts (80 x 5 = 400 and that equals 4 ammo boxes of 100 rounds).

Riflemen don't fire bursts, they fire single shots each time they fire (multiplied by number of men shooting).

[Cross]

IRL battles the infantry platoons were supplied by runners who fetched ammo when given the opportunity. There's no way to simulate that in SP.

Lowering the ammo could lead to unwanted results in large & long battles. It would be tedious and not exactly realistic to drive around with ammo trucks to supply infantry squads..

I think this is/can be simulated in SP, because IIRC you have to be within one hex of ammo trucks or 2 hexes of ammo dumps. It used to be that any stationary units within range received ammo. Now I think only one unit gets 60? units of ammo a turn.

Therefore, it should be possible to extend the range of ammo resupply to say all stationary units within 5 hexes, and lower the ammo units replaced to say 10 or 20. This way an ammo carrier could drive up to a platoon HQ and resupply the whole platoon at once. Staying briefly for a minimum resupply, or longer for complete resupply. Then drive on to the next platoon.

However, this is completely academic because SPCamo won't be lowering the ammo loadouts any time soon.

[Narwan]

Each ammo unit has a value representing the amount of ammo it can deliver in one turn. For units that can supply at a 2-hex range that value is lower at 2 hexes distance. The type of ammo (determined by warhead size if I remember correctly) determines how much ammo can be added in a single turn (80 rounds for a lmg is easier to replenish than 10 rounds of 28cm arty shells for example).

Ammo is replenished one unit at a time. So the next one gets what's left of that turn value once the first unit fully loaded again. The picking order is determined by the purchase order. Unit AE3 will get priority over unit BX0.

[Cross]

I think it was a few years ago that ammo carriers would resupply all the units within range at the same time.

I guess I was suggesting that it would be possible (code wise) to go back to that, or something similar, and resupply a whole platoon at the same time.

[Vesku]

No, the 90 rounds are for riflemen. The ammo for lmg's is 90 (or 80) bursts (80 x 5 = 400 and that equals 4 ammo boxes of 100 rounds).

Riflemen don't fire bursts, they fire single shots each time they fire (multiplied by number of men shooting).

Rifleman with AK47 is firing only single shots? Didn't know that. I assumed that units with assault rifles used bursts.

[Narwan]

You've hit on one my personal 'problems' with the game; automatic and semi-automatic rifles. They have higher HEK values because of them being (semi)automatic. The reasoning was that as such they can put more fire on the target quicker without 'losing' the aim (working the bolt action of a weapon jerks it somewhat so you'll have to refocus your aim after every shot). Increasing ROF or accuracy wasn't an option code-wise so this was chosen instead. The higher HEK representing more rounds fired (not necessairily in bursts, as it applies to the garand too, just more single rounds in quick succession or quick bursts of up to 3 rounds). Back when this was changed I argued for the case of reducing the ammo load accordingly for each of these weapons (halving the load for them) but no luck.
So I fully agree with a reduction in ammo load for semi-automatic and automatic rifles.

[Vesku]

Your earlier comments are right on the button for bolt action rifles, I'm just so used to my Stg44s by now since all my games in SPWW2 has them for my Germans :)

[seabolt]

You've hit on one my personal 'problems' with the game; automatic and semi-automatic rifles. (See original post.)

I not only agree, but have been making the same argument for MGs. If the MG 42 merits 67% more stopping power than a Bren (IIRC), it's because it has 43% of the endurance of a Bren. You can't have the one without the other, in reality. As things are now, uniform ammo loadouts are an immense benefit to the Germans, who are the last TO/E to need a free handout.

To be fair, assault rifles should have a less than linear reduction in loadout because of the smaller cartridge. Even still, an AK-47 user will burn through his ammunition much more quickly than a Mauser 98k wielder.

This is one thing that (for instance) Combat Mission gets right that shouldn't be impossible to replicate in this game.

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