Constructive discussion

[Herr Straße Laufer]

Hawk, I maybe reading your comments in the wrong context perhaps.
You bring Ed into the debate whereas I stated I'm not taking sides. I even admit that Gordon made a controversial remark that didn't help matters for him.

Actually Peter you brought Ed into the debate here by referring to Gordon's "controversial remark" (LOL! You could write speeches for politicians.)

Here is what debate means:
From the Merriam-Webster online dictionary:
Discussion
Pronunciation: \di-ˈskə-shən\
Function: noun Date: 14th century
1 : consideration of a question in open and usually informal debate
2 : a formal treatment of a topic in speech or writing
___________________________
That is it? It is quite simply discussion defined?
On the other thread I only said that there are reasons not to change the LOS. I then agreed with two or three others who basically said the same thing.
Then Gordon chose to personally attack me and not what I wrote.

Here is what personal attack means:
From the Nizkor Project:

Ad Hominem Abusive.
Description of Personal Attack
A personal attack is committed when a person substitutes abusive remarks for evidence when attacking another person's claim or claims. This line of "reasoning" is fallacious because the attack is directed at the person making the claim and not the claim itself. The truth value of a claim is independent of the person making the claim. After all, no matter how repugnant an individual might be, he or she can still make true claims.
_____________________________

I can see that you have played many recent games with Gordon and I appreciate you sticking up for your friend. But, to 'water down' what he did and draw out the continued attacks is really where the problem is?

I adhere to the two definitions above. I've never told someone to shut up. Nor would I.
I think that those who are not stating their opinions have that right. But, if they are passionate and want to post that is another issue?
If others hesitate from stating their opinions then we all lose?

Last I saw the average age of the CS ladder was early to late forties. I may be wrong, it is not a factual statement because I did not research it, but I think it is fair to say that most are mid thirties or older.
If so, why are "mature men" afraid to post? LOL! It makes me laugh to even think of why. I sure know that enough of you have taken your shots at me, but, I still type into discussions by discussing?

Your thread theme was constructive discussion. I agree. It is about time we had it and less personal attacks.

Good gaming!



RR

[Herr Straße Laufer]

Hi All
I find it very interesting that many long term, grizzled veterans of this club have avoided these postings.......
Maybe that speaks to something ?
Cam

Hello Cam! Good to see you post.
Are you still playing and/or designing scenarios?

Grizzled vets? Hmmm...
The one's who congratulate others for reaching milestones?
The one's who post best wishes for those who have birthdays?
The one's who do post to make CS better and not just to change it?
The one's who post on the forums to make The Blitz a better place?

Those grizzled vets?
Maybe that speaks something too?

I'd love to see you post on other threads and add something new, from your perspective, to the discussions.

RR

[Glint]

ok, I'm really amazed now, it's truly incredulous.
Some of you guys must have keyboards stuck to your fingers with super glue, the way you respond so quickly and so frequently, lol!
I not only play Gordon a fair bit, we have met various times as well, so I do know him fairly well.
I stated in my post that I wasn't taking sides, I was trying to make a point that these posts of late are probably dissuading people from contributing to the discussion.
A couple of guys have made a point and, straight away, they are jumped on too?
I find it offensive to have explained the definitions for various words as if I'm some kind of moron. I find it offensive that supposed ' grown ups' can make snide remarks, nothing to do with discussion of matters relevant to the game itself and I think it's pretty pathetic that some people have to paraphrase every part of someone's message as if they are trying to score points?
If the average age in the blitz is 30 to 40 then maybe some 'older'guys aren't 'afraid' to post, they maybe of a more mature age and can't be bothered anymore to participate in discussions that are hi-jacked by what they see as juvenile baiting and childish wrangling?

[Herr Straße Laufer]

I find it offensive to have explained the definitions for various words as if I'm some kind of moron. I find it offensive that supposed ' grown ups' can make snide remarks, nothing to do with discussion of matters relevant to the game itself and I think it's pretty pathetic that some people have to paraphrase every part of someone's message as if they are trying to score points?

????
You find discussion offensive?
You find a person questioning your motives offensive?

You claim that snide remarks have been used? Prove it.
And, the quote button is used to let a poster know what part of his post is being discussed. I find your objections and so called "offense" to simple words specious at best.
What is pathetic is a person who asks for discussion but denies individuals the right to discuss the topic. The constant changing of discussion parameters is getting tiring.

If the average age in the blitz is 30 to 40 then maybe some 'older'guys aren't 'afraid' to post, they maybe of a more mature age and can't be bothered anymore to participate in discussions that are hi-jacked by what they see as juvenile baiting and childish wrangling?

Hi-jacking? Juvenile, baiting, and childish are all words used to not discuss but to attack certain posters. Where is the discussion in these words?
I thought you'd bring more to the table Peter. Maybe you don't want discussion?

RR

[Gordons HQ]

I nearly made it to my bunker, but once again Mr Roadrunner outshines himself.

Personal attack, how sad such offence (English spelling here) is taken by such a few words.


I might take the same offence if I was of a mind with his snide remarks about dictionaries and the like, but that would also bring me down into the saddo league.

Mr Roadrunner it seems you have succeeded once again with you tactic of out typing everyone in diverting attention away from what was the real issue brought up about LOS.

I have no agenda or vested interest here, I was just pointing out what I believe to be an error in the game which leads to unrealistic play. That is insane over use of shoot and scoot, which brings the game down to childish levels of hide and seek
IMHO it reduces all the scenarios to useless by allowing this type of play.
So anyone who thinks he is playing a realistic simulation of an historic event, better think again.

I for one will never ever raise another issue on this forum, while this kind of treatment to such threads is taking place.
Some of you may say good, well now you know how you stifle constructive thought.

Bye for good this time:bow:

[Herr Straße Laufer]

I nearly made it to my bunker, but once again Mr Roadrunner outshines himself.

<<snip>>

Mr Roadrunner it seems you have succeeded once again with you tactic of out typing everyone in diverting attention away from what was the real issue brought up about LOS.

<<snip>>

I for one will never ever raise another issue on this forum, while this kind of treatment to such threads is taking place.
Some of you may say good, well now you know how you stifle constructive thought.

Bye for good this time:bow:

You should have kept walking?
Turning to shout back as you run to hide is quite poor?

As I saw it, "real" military (and some combat vets at that) men commented to the negative on what change you thought would be "realistic" in the game. Those experienced men you ignored to single me out for your treatment.
You never discussed with them? You just waited and called for others to support your viewpoint, while personally attacking me?

If your idea of stifling thought is open discussion that does not agree with you, then it might just be well that you stay in the bunker. Your thinness of skin will only give rise to your emotional responses and personal attacks against those who do not agree with you?

Bye bye!

RR

[zeiss]

You claim that snide remarks have been used? Prove it.

How about this..

From the thefreedictionary.com:
snide
adj. snid·er, snid·est
Derogatory in a malicious, superior way.

And, the quote button is used to let a poster know what part of his post is being discussed.

Well, some posters do overuse the quote button to chop the original message into a long list of single lines. This is considered bad netiquette on most forums and is a pain to read.

Bye bye!

A number of the highly valued "discussion" threads that you've been involved in lately have degenerated into who-said-what rants and ended like this one. Why is that Ed? Is it only because of the incompetence of the idiots you're trying to have a civilized exchange with?

It's starting to be a long list of posters that's been run out of town. We're losing posters and players..

[Antoni Chmielowski]

I left this thread open for future discussion and since then it has degenerated downwards.

I am aware that some posters find it hard to accept someone elses point of view and for this reason I have now reluctantly locked this thread and I hope everyone can go away, clear their heads, and come back with a new resolve.

Please remember gentleman that although you may not like each others points of views, you can always ignore a post that you do not like.

Thank you.