New large WF scenario to test

[Von Luck]

Ok need dedicated members to test a 90 turn Longest Day scenario.Not saying you have to test it right to the end mind but test it to a conclusion on how it works and what might be helpful to play balance etc.I myself am going to play the designer to see how it goes.So all members who like larger scenarios step up and try.PS Dan couldnt get the FULL info file to upload so please ask him for it or i could send it to those intrested instead.

[kernel t]

I would like to give it a try.Where do I get the files?

[flanker]

i would also like to try it

[Reddog]

I would like to try it as well but I also have a few questions? Is it a Team game and is it a Matrix version scenario? Thanks for your time.

Anyone interested in playing a 2 x 2 Team game against our team the "Reddog's Raiders"? I already have a Team mate and we would command the Germans.

[Chuck10mtn]

I'm willing to be half of the Allies team that will push Reddogs Raiders back to Germany !! Need help ?? Any takers ??

[JRTXX]

Hey Chuck,
Watch out for Reddog!! he is very good and incredibly detailed!!

[Dan Caviness]

Hello to all:

I finally tracked down jb....sorry guys....bear with an old fart!
I only know our H2H custodian as jb, and just tracked his forum posts down as Von Luck.
My thanks for all of Von Luck's help.
While I've been playing and designing for some years, I am new to the Blitz and negotiating the forums.

As the designer of the Longest Day scenario I really appreciate any and all input on it. As noted here and in several other forums I've browsed, it is really big, and your PC may appear to lock up at the beginning of a turn. This is especially true when playing Fog of War, which I believe most of us are. I've got an average speed machine, but when I open Von Luck's moves I usually walk away and give it 5 minutes.

I can answer some of the questions I've seen below:

1. There is a glitch on the German reinforcement entry hexes. I design (and play) with my forces on the bottom of the map whenever possible, and having rotated the map prior to placing some of those German reinforcements in the scenario editor appears to have caused this problem.

For those who didn't notice, when you bring on some German reinforcements, they appear with the correct entry hex in the dialog box, and appear on the correct hex on the map, but the display coordinates (small display bottom right bar of screen) gives you inaccurate hex coordinates. My bad, won't do that again! I'm checking out the fix but I hope I don't have to redo all those reinforcements.

2. It does work well for team play. Actually, with it's size, it's probably best for teamplay. Unless your a very patient player, you'll be overwhelmed and just start moving and dying for no purpose. The Allied forces can easily be partioned into 2 to 5 players. For 2 players you can play Yanks and Brits, or you can divide them into up to 5 players with Utah, Omaha, Gold, Juno and Sword beach assignments. Axis players will find easiest to simply assign divisions and keep them geographically contigous (sp...is that a word?). Besides your static beach divisions remember a lot of the German forces (and the best by far) come on as reinforcements and you should divvy those up as well. Again, Divisional divisions work best. Divvy your divisional divisions....say what?

3. FYI to everyone...the Allies come on the beaches in three waves. The First Wave initial onslaught, which is almost invariably decimated, should concentrate on trying to make the next wave(s) able to negotitate the beach.

Here are some of my concerns/possible changes I'm considering at this point. I've played this hot seat twice, and PBEM once, and my new game with Von Luck is my 4th time through it.

a) Allies....too much smoke? 225 smokes seems like a lot...but if you burn them like I do...trying to get up on the beach...you'll be out in 6 to 8 turns. You have a lot of beach to cover, but I'm concerned a skilled Allied player could saturate certain areas and make it too easy. Against Von Luck? No worries mate....your going to get dead in a hurry....lol...

b) While this is not obvious from looking at the map, the entire Omaha bluffs are almost impassable to vehicles. I used a large elevation delta to do this rather than miles of cliffs, in order to allow infantry to get up some of it in areas the tanks can't.

c) Point du Hoc What can I say? It's suicide. I tried to get it right, and I believe I did, but I've never gotten any Rangers up that area. Makes you wonder just how tough/crazy the real ones were.

d) I believe the Brit 6th Paras need to be cut back a bit. They end up scattered all over behind Caen and behind Sword/Juno and can make it a fight for the 21st Panzer and Panzer Lehr reinforcements to get to the beach. I'm interested to see other opinions. The airborne drops are supposed to do this...but only to a point.

Once again my thanks for all your help and interest.

Dan

[Reddog]

Thank you Sir for this designer's input and it's quite valuable information. :thumbs_up:

I salute you on your scenario creation and thank you for the many hours you must have taken to produce such a huge battle.

For me the bigger the better so I'm sure I'll really enjoy this one. I'll try to send you a battlefield report every 15 turns or so. That will work better for me than trying to remember any comments I may have from beginning to end.

[Chuck10mtn]

Hi Dan,
Great scenario, I looked at the 1st edition of this with my brother as the Axis and must say I really like the 3 waves of reinforcements as compared to all at once. I'm playing against reddog and his partner with mine. We are the Allies,smoke seems good to me. I think that maybe the right side of the beach allies might be a little tough. I'm using the Brits they seem to be getting hammered hard. I can't say too much more in case the Axis have this thread bugged ??? Don't want to give too much away.

Chuck

[Dan Caviness]

Reddog:

Making these scenarios is a blast for me.
I tried attaching the "readme" file for Normandy44 but it doesn't allow that type of file for some reason, I'll keep working on it. It's a word pad/rtf file...not sure what the issue is

I think you guys may want to review it. I cover some optional suggested rules and give a detailed breakdown of the structure and organizations. I can email it to anyone interested.

I have found over the years...I am better at designing them than winning or playing them...lol...
I spent several months on Normandy, and all told it's been over a year.
Wouldn't do it again...but I'm glad I did.

I do tend to make them big though...and it's great to see some of you guys enjoy these. I got a lot of downloads on my original mod which I posted up on the Games Depot site, but you never get any feedback and it's hard to say if your on the right track or not. That is where having skilled vet players like you guys giving it a go is key.

I believe when you make bigger scenarios, you have to consider history, but you also have to make concessions to gameplay. Maps and scenarios like this take on their own reality, and IMHO allow the players to direct history as they desire rather than acting out a known play on a set stage.

It is entirely unrealistic to attempt to model the landings at Normandy and the subsequent fights inland in one sitting. WHICH IS WHY THIS GAME IS UNIQUE AND PRECIOUS...IT DOESN'T CARE!
With the "tweener" scale of the Talonsoft/JTCS Campaign series you can actually bridge that gap of realism between tactical and strategic games. Then you can endlessly argue for hours over whether a turn is 6 minutes or 60...another great facet to this jewel of a game.
Time is subjective and "flexible" in this scale.

It allows you to place Sgt Major Stanley Hollis and his 6th Green Howards storming the pillboxes on Gold Beach....and place Wittmann's boys and Panzer abteilung 101 behind Viller's Bocage all on the same stage.

Stir well....toss in some well placed objectives to at least TRY and simulate the real events....and let the players dictate the game.

Caen remains a key.
It is impossible to negotiate Normandy without it.
I got decimated pushing a little too far past Caen with my Canuck Armor into Hill 112 the first time I played...and when the 12th SS Hitlerjugend arrived they hit me like a sledgehammer and literally threw my units all the way back to the beaches.

Chuck10mtn:

Thanks very much for your reply. I agree with you on the right side of the beach, if your talking about Utah, the rightmost flank beach. The Allies are strong there and I believe some force reductions are in order for Utah.
As partial compensation for that, note that your Axis opponents (hopefully that enemy thread bugging is not active) can use engineers to blow a couple of crucial bridges connecting the Carentan Peninsula that can impede your progress once you get inland on Utah. I was trying to simulate those flooded areas the Germans created inland. They can't seal you off, but they can limit your options.

Also...the Brits do get hammered...especially on Gold/Sword.
Very little compensation for that unfortunately, other than they do have the bulk of the naval fire support, and eventually they do force the Axis to keep their heads down in that area. I have nothing against those poor Brits, and actually have a bit of a soft spot for the Canucks (I married one...make that a hard spot actually) but they don't seem to do well early. Carrier units and relatively thin initial landings make them vulnerable early. I usually throw more smoke to them those first few turns. Also...if there is a slower bunker buster than the British AVRE....I haven't met it...ouch...

You'll find the French units, well supplied with lend lease American firepower, actually play well in this one. I for one find it tedious and unrealistic to continually portray and model French units as inferior.
If any French ever fought harder than those that landed on their home land that day to retake their country from the Germans....I haven't heard about them.

Once you force inland in at least one area on each invasion beach, the battle will regain fluidity, and you'll be able to work on making up those minus 2 to 3 thousand points you gave up on the beach!'

If your paras can tie up those Panzer Lehr and 21st Pz reinforcements early, you can even make good headway before the really brutal SS reinforcements start coming in. Once they do, in my experience, you've got a meeting engagement on your hands, and the line between first and second side blurs.

In the "read me" file I give a nod to the original map designer for this battle. My "Wiking"er German PBEM partner and fellow designer Karsten put me on to this map which was originally created by a German player, Herr Klingenbiel. His version is the first one you probably saw. I enjoy mapmaking over all, and it was a joy to me to see someone had really painstakingly modeled the Normandy peninsula. This guy was as crazy as I am!

I extensively modified his map file for game play, mainly around the beaches and in the bocage, adding Hill 112, Villers Bocage, Carpiquet, Caen Airfield, etc, etc. I wanted to make the beach a lot harder to negotiate, and I did. Elevations grew. Bunkers and pillboxes, blocks and minefields, Rommels Asparagus, and a pinch of Bubonic Plague for good measure...
Then I created new OOB and SCN files from scratch to make this more of a gamer's game rather than the purely historical version he had. My version ended up considerably larger, and more deadly, than his. Still, I owe Herr Klingenbiel a nod. Karsten and I have not been able to contact him.

I am posting up two other of my scenarios in the general scenario upload area. They may warrant H2H testing as well.
I believe they are my best work, and they are entirely mine.
Both are large, but neither is Normandy44 size.
Thank the gods!

My latest is the Aachen-West Wall fight, October 1944.

This one models the area from the Stohlberg Corridor and the Hurtgenwald to north of Aachen and covers the Scharnhorst and Schill Lines of Germany's West Wall in this area. As Allied you get to negotiate the Dragon's Teeth, and take the entirely urban city of Aachen. Historically the Allies tried to bypass and encircle Aachen, but the defenders refused to yield and this recreates the "mouseholing" and block by block urban battle. Keep in mind while the Yanks had become more skilled at fighting the Germans by this time, they had yet to encounter any serious urban combat. They eventually resorted to using SPA 155mm Guns to knock down Aachen, one building, one tank trap, one more intersection at a time.
As is the case in Normandy, the Divisions are historical. This allowed me to add some of the newer Veteran and Green platoons to try and simulate the vast difference in ability between units such as the Big Red One fighting alongside the grean 9th Inf Division south of Aachen. Not disrepecting the 9th...they earned their spurs in blood later in the Hurtgen...but at this time they were green.
I have not shredded the Axis Divisions, in order to make the gameplay and victory conditions enjoyable for both sides. It is a stock scenario, historically accurate to the best of my ability, with concessions to gameplay, fairness, and I hope enjoyability.
The Allies come on map purely as reinforcements, and like a ton of bricks. Remnant Axis units reel before them, but only until they reach the Western Wall. Then Kilroy earns his K rations...
The areas between the Scharnhorst and Schill lines is a nightmare of mixed minefields, blocks, artillery from hell, etc.
They also have to cross the Wurm River under the sights of the Wall.

The second is purely hypothetical.
It is called "Berlin 1947"

This represents what could have happened if Russia alone fought the Germans and had to take Berlin. If you enjoy late war scenarios, but hate the ineveitably reduced and withered Axis units, this one may appeal to you. With an intact Western Europe/Germany at their back, the defenders of Berlin are in much better shape to fight this fight.
The map is one of my favorites, which means it's a bit difficult. Actually it's a stone cold "mutha" to negotiate. I modeled Berlin as faithfully as possible (apologies to Huib...no Google Earth overlays though) and anyone who has been to Berlin and seen the canals and waterways will see it can be made into quite an obstacle course by a good defender.

Placing it in 1947 also allows the use of some later war variant weapons types you don't often see, including Panther F's, Panther II's, T44-85's, and some IS-3's.

Bring body bags...

In summation, (yes I'm going to shut up now my fingers are bleeding and my keyboard is overheating), my thanks to all and I am very happy to have finally met you guys.

Regards,

Dan

ps: Any shipmates out there?
USS Coral Sea CVA 43
USS Narwhal SSN 671