Korsun 44

[Gordons HQ]

I'm playing Korsun 44, 4th Gds Army Alt scenario and according to the description of the scenario on the evening 25th Jan brought the release of the 5th Don Cavalry Group. It's goal was to quickly smash the rear German area
However in the game I'm playing these units are not released until 2000 26th Jan In this 18 turn game that is just about the end of the game and it's placement in this scenario would seem to be completely useless as it stands.
I've checked the standard scenario and this is the same.
I feel this must be some mistake in the release time in the game and I'm pretty sure my HPS patches are up to date.
Anyone any idea's

Cheers Gordon

[Volcano Man]

Strela will have to tell you more about that, but I suspect that the release time might be correct with some information he read and that maybe the summary is now incorrect in that scenario, but I don't know. ;)

[FM WarB]

I recently received Nash's Hells's Gate. He states that that Cav Corps was a Front Reserve formation and does not have them in action much before 28 January.

Korsun may be my first Russian front PC game.

[Strela]

Hi Gordons HQ.

As FM WarB mentioned the release time is based on Nash and Zetterling's books.

This scenario was a direct port of the original with a revised OB and starting setup.

I will have a quick look, but it does sound nonsensical to have the units in the scenario at all as they will essentially play no part.

I am currently working on V4 of Korsun and will revisit this scenario and its description.

Thanks for the heads up.

[FM WarB]

Strela,
Does Zetterling provide better oobs than Nash?

[Strela]

Yes. Nash used the Russian official report for strengths etc. This was published not long after tha battle in 1944. This way overstated the German tank strength.

Zetterling has done an exhaustive review of microfilm of the German divisional strength returns and essentially provides a much more accurate indication of the German forces.

This has been the basis of the scenario conversions that have been done for Korsun Alt. The original Korsun as released rarely resulted in the pocket being formed as the German tank strength was so overstated. Couple that with excessive German units at platoon level, always allowed the Germans to either cobble a line together or worse still isolate any Russians breaking through.

A lot of work has been done to get the game much closer to the historical time line and to actually allow the pocket to form.

The current release is V3 which works well, but the changes in V4 will definitely enhance the campaign again and also bring the second campaign up to standard.

David

[Gordons HQ]

Thanks for the replies If I may I would say this scenario could do with a good overhaul. However I'm afraid I have no real reference for this campaign although I am aware of the basics of the Korsun Pocket and the relief attempts,
I would suggest the VP points for any kind of Russian victory seem extreamley hard to come by but perhaps that's intentional for this particular scenario or my poor play.

Cheers, Gordon

[Ivan]

I'm reading the Nash book at the moment and I didn't get this impression about tank strength. E.g. page 28: "Due to this conservative method, the Red Army estimated that the Germans fielded in the salient over 130,000 men, 1,000 artillery pieces, and 100 tanks, an amount that was twice again as much as what the Germans actually had (in regards to artillery, the Germans had only a quarter of that amount)." His source for this is Glantz. But he also quotes German micro flim in other places, e.g. "At the time of the encirclement it still fielded 50 artillery pieces ..."talking about Rgt.GR 676. He also states in his notes on sources that he relies heavily on German microfilms available in the US National Archives.

I haven't seen the other book, I'm reading Nash as I've just ordered the game. Looking forward to trying V4 when it's ready.