Mine Clearance: What's the best way?

[Bacillus98]

Here's a topic I have been pondering for a few days. What's the optimum way to clear mines? I have read some articles on Glenn's site that have helped guide me in the right direction. Should you....?

1.) Move the engineer unit and pray disruption does not occur. After successful mine removal, move units in cleared area.
2.) Move cannon fodder, usually low quality units such as Penal Units or D morale units. They will usually disrupt, and subsequent engineer movement follows. I thought that the morale check will be for the lowest rated morale unit, which could make the engineer unit disrupt easier if it becomes focus fired by your opponent.
3.) Zerg the desired hex with multiple engineer units and hope one can clear the mines in time for followup units.

For the sake of argument I am referring to a hex with (x1) mines in a clear terrain hex. For more heavily mined areas, clearance would obviously be more difficult.

So, how do you guys approach the mine problem?

[Mr Grumpy]

Here's a topic I have been pondering for a few days. What's the optimum way to clear mines? I have read some articles on Glenn's site that have helped guide me in the right direction. Should you....?

1.) Move the engineer unit and pray disruption does not occur. After successful mine removal, move units in cleared area.
2.) Move cannon fodder, usually low quality units such as Penal Units or D morale units. They will usually disrupt, and subsequent engineer movement follows. I thought that the morale check will be for the lowest rated morale unit, which could make the engineer unit disrupt easier if it becomes focus fired by your opponent.
3.) Zerg the desired hex with multiple engineer units and hope one can clear the mines in time for followup units.

For the sake of argument I am referring to a hex w/ x1 mines in a clear terrain hex. For more heavily mined areas, clearance would obviously be more difficult.

So, how do you guys approach the mine problem?

The most desirable situation is if you have multiple engineer units to swamp the hex and so increase the chances of at least one not being disrupted and hence the hex will be clear, but that is a "best case" situation 3), your idea 2) is also fine if you have less engineers, although the penal units may draw some fire of course it is possible they might not and your engineer gets all the defensive fire!

Another conundrum is if you have a single battalion of engineers available, do you break them down into company's which will take more fatigue or do you keep the unit combined but then it can be disrupted by a single shot? Not any easy choice....:chin:

Although your example is a clear hex, if there are a line of mine hex's then most players would pick a hex with a defensive benefit to try to help the engineers survive one turn, in the end a x1 hex of mines is not a serious obstacle even if you are forced to move units through it, the x2 and x3 mines hex's are the real challenge!

[Panzer VI]

In my current Smolensk '41 game as the Germans, I was able to easily send a single unit of Pioneers in to clear 1 hex of mines by themselves with minimal casualties and no disruptions. And that is with a total 5 adjacent Soviet Units. In my experience #3 is unnecessary in most situations, and #2 is practically a waste of troops if you playing with an Army like the Germans in 1941 where all the units have B morale or better. I would say #1 is your best bet.

[Mike Bowen]

Break down your bats and swamp the hex use artillery to disrupt defenders if possible.

Until the engine takes into account numbers and quality of engineers this is the worst aspect of the engine.

I had a 2 man unit of engineers low morale max fatigue clearing mines at the same rate as a 500 man unit that was fresh which is plainly silly.

As to Smolensk each game is different try clearing mines at Omaha with one unit!

Mike

[Panzer VI]

I always thought the engine did take at least take quality into a account and fatigue....don't know about numbers.

I do agree on fact that each game is different. Try clearing mines as the Soivets in Stalingrad '42 and you will have a tough time, which is when #2 of the OP is more viable where most of the soviet army is morale C or lower.

[Mr Grumpy]

I always thought the engine did take at least take quality into a account and fatigue....don't know about numbers.

Strangely no, the only advantage to higher quality is the fact your engineer unit is less likely to disrupt when fired upon.

So a 10 man E quality unit will clear a 1 hex of mines at the same speed as a 1000 man A quality unit.

I have no idea why this is the case? At least when you lay mines a unit with a strength of 100+ has more chance of success than a unit with 99 men, but again unit quality has no effect. ;)

[Bacillus98]

I always thought the engine did take at least take quality into a account and fatigue....don't know about numbers.

Strangely no, the only advantage to higher quality is the fact your engineer unit is less likely to disrupt when fired upon.

So a 10 man E quality unit will clear a 1 hex of mines at the same speed as a 1000 man A quality unit.

I have no idea why this is the case? At least when you lay mines a unit with a strength of 100+ has more chance of success than a unit with 99 men, but again unit quality has no effect. ;)

sounds like it qualifies for Tillercon 3 discussion thread :)

[Liquid_Sky]

I have noticed that if your engineers make their morale check at the beginning of the turn, they then clear the mines...so even if they get disrupted they can still clear if you get lucky.

I am clearing mines in Stalingrad right now, and what I am doing is hitting a belt about 10 hexes wide with a single engineer battalion in each hex...the ones that clear then move unto the disrupted engineers to help them out until the belt is done...cleared hexes get a full stacking limit of riflemen who then dig in next to the Germans (who are in Bunkers), while I wait for my artillery to disrupt the defenders.

Something always gives.