Battalion support

[keepitloki]

Does anyone have info on what kind of support a German battalion could expect for a river crossing/assault? And how could this be augmented for a "vital" mission?
Also what support could a British battalion recieve in fixed defences? Relating to the above situation. Both for early 1941.

[Vesku]

Without any further research I'd imagine that German infantry battalion would have pioneer company, mg company, ATgun platoon, few Stugs, various number of Stukas and artillery. For a vital mission increase airsupport and artillery ... probably few Stugs too.

For Brits ... anything. Usually for infantry division it's motorized infantry, ATguns, mgs, engineers, ... what a regiment has in reserve. If there is armoured units nearby they would probably be the first to be called for help (and they were always the favorite unit to be had in reserve but infantry might not have many tanks in use) but any unit that is near enough would be sent to stopping a river crossing if that is a vital point in defense, cooks, clerks, etc.

You could try figuring out which divisions would be where and what they have kept for their reserve, having a big picture figured out would answer your question. If this is for your "What if Germans had executed Seelion" then you have free hands, you can always say that Brits had tank division in reserve just where Germans attacked so 100 Cruisers is just what answered the call for help :)

[keepitloki]

Excellent, thankyou.

[Grumbler]

IIRC the UK had less then a dozen tanks in the home Islands the day after Dunkirk. They were old Vickers, Miltidas MkI's and a few A-9's used for training.. I think I read this in Messinger's book 'Blitzkrieg Story'.
On War ( the U CAl Berkely web site about warfare) used to have an excellent section on Armored vehicles that included production figures. I don't think British production had been ramped up for tanks in 1940, so we are taking less then 100 per month of all types. The UK needed airplanes, mostly fighters, so that is where Lord Beaverbrook focused his production on.
Keep in mind that the home guard was armed mostly with shotguns and pitchforks. There was a story about one of the shire home guards showing up with longbows. Not sure I believe that. If it had been a Welsh unit, maybe.
If the Germans had gotteb troops ashore, they would have slaughtered the Brits. The Royal Navy wasn't going to let the Krauts get troops ashore. Any air drop would have run wild, until their ammo was gone (half a day at best) then those pitchforks would have been useful. A shotgun with ammo is a better weapon then an MG34 without ammo.
Both general staffs could count. Both general staffs knew that with a resupply route, any German invasion was doomed. That is why it didn't happen.
If you want a realistic scenario, start with the docks of one of the British costal towns. Park the Bismark in the harbor for fire support and start unloading ammo off your barges. Para drops should be on landing fields. Secure two or three landing fields and the Germans stand a very small chance of lasting a week before they die or surrender.
Here is the actual German OOB for operation sealion;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_S..._of_battle

Milch wanted to start the invasion of the UK the day after Dunkirk. It might have worked then. Slip some troops into the refugees and try to grab a harbor on the sly and follow it up with airdrops.
It might have worked, then again I suspect the Royal Navy was watching out for just that sort of thing.

http://www.onwar.com/
Look at the production numbers. By 1940, England had produced less then 500 Tanks in the decade before the war. Most were light tanks and shipped to the colonies, were they awed the natives.
Tank production during 1940 was around 100 per month (average) of all types. Approximately 30% was left in France, another 30% sent to Egypt and the bulk of the rest farmed out to the colonies. That is why the Honey was received with such delight by British crews in Africa.

[keepitloki]

Absolutely, I've read up some of the stuff online about the hypothetical operation sealion test simulated in the 1970's (when the simulation was carried out, not sealion obviously). I wasn't aware how under equipped the UK was for tanks. It's a shame there are no IED units for SP (mines don't count, unless you can cross your own minefields?). Apparently the Home guard were very inventive with their IEDs. I gather, though correct me if I'm wrong, that Britain armed up pretty quick (if you call months quick).
One infantry gun used to equip the Home Guard was called the Smith Gun (3" smooth bore fired with a blank cartridge) that came packed up like it came from IKEA. I'll try to find the link to a hilarious story about what happened when one unit found they had a washer left over after assembling their Smith gun.
What's your opinion on how the "stop lines" would have faired against the wehrmacht?
In my hypothetical scenarios I intend for things to go horribly wrong for the Germans. But it is all "for fun" so please don't slay me on technical details that I may overlook. Like the fact that the RN would most likely have blown the landing force to kingdom come.
While we're on the subject I saw a simulation carried out on TV re. the Battle of Britain. Apparently the theory that the Luftwaffe could have won if they'd stuck to attacking airfields is unlikely. In the simulation shown the attrition rate on the Luftwaffe would have been more than it could cope with and the outcome would have remained the same.
OK that's it. Before I make any more of a fool of myself with my dubious knowledge, I'm not a scholar on the subject.

[Vesku]

What about the 330 000 men lifted from Dunkirk? Wouldn't they be ready in -41? Of course rearming them with heavy weapons would have taken a bit of resources and most had been shipped to other fronts but still, the remaining could form a division or two by the time of your scenario.

[Weasel]

Don't forget there were two fully equipped divisions at least in England, Canadian and ANZAC.

[keepitloki]

Any idea when they arrived?

[Grumbler]

http://www.yesnet.yk.ca/schools/projects...r/war.html

"The First Division landed in England in December of 1939 under the command of Maj. Gen. A.G.L McNaughton. Shortly after arriving, the men of the first division began intensive training to be ready to serve with the British Expiditiary Force."

" On Sunday, Dec 10, 1939 the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation announced that Canada had formally declared war on Germany. At this time Canada had 16 modern light tanks, 4 anti aircraft guns and two anti-tank guns. "

Do you think they sent both ATG's to England or kept one back to fight off the Yanks?