Another suggestion for a game engine ammendment

[Mr Grumpy]

Why not just be aware of what your stacking in a hex is and make sure they have a retreat? Seems to me I hardly ever lose units to failure to retreat due to overstacking..

If you right click on the display...in the middle of the hex is a number, which represents the troop equivilence stacked in the hex....after that, its just simple math.

I agree, you cannot blame the game system for your own mistake, the maths is easy (even for me!) and the penalty for overstacking is set out clearly in the rules.

Bottom line is if you don't want to lose men this way, take more time planning your moves and provide them with a retreat path free from overstacking..........and yes i learnt about this the hard way and was determined for it not to happen again!!! :rolleyes:

[consume]

Try reading Guy Sajer's Forgotten Soldier. Most of his time seemed to be spent fleeing the enemy and then being re-rolled back into his unit by an uncaring military. And he was a member of the elite Gross Deutschland.

Forgotten Soldier has been widely debunked as fiction.

http://www.members.shaw.ca/grossdeutschland/

under "Grossdeutschland Information", then "Guy Sajer". Not saying that the Germans didn't retreat for two years straight, but you could use better and more historical examples.

It seems to me that a large number of troops would actually be BETTER at retreating than a depleted company, the numbers allowing the defenders to form rearguards and rotate them when worn out, etc. But since the engine forces all of the assaulted units to retreat at once and possibly trip hex stacking limits, that isn't the case.

[Glenn Saunders]

It seems to me that a large number of troops would actually be BETTER at retreating than a depleted company, the numbers allowing the defenders to form rearguards and rotate them when worn out, etc. But since the engine forces all of the assaulted units to retreat at once and possibly trip hex stacking limits, that isn't the case.

The game also has one side move while the other side watches and everyone knows that isn't how real life works either.

In any case the series has been around for a fairly long time and I have not seen any examples where excessive losses were taken, enough to justify a rule change or addition to change a condition such as the Overstacking allowed on Beaches that was built for Normandy.

Of course you and your opponent are free to change the PDT and work with a custom PDT where the stacking limit can be set as high as you wish. But ultimately that won't correct the issue either because the bigger you allow the stack the more people push on that limit.

Glenn

[fastphil]

I have certainly been the beneficiary of the stacking limits effect on enemy units retreats (and the victim, too!). It does seem a little stringent. How about the overstacked retreating units are automatically broken and the units occupying the hex before are disrupted? Lot better than complete annihilation.

That sounds like an excellent solution, to me.

I'm sorry guys but I think this is the worse sugestion I have heard in a while and believe it would have to be an optional rule. As has been said 'be careful what you ask for'. :rolleyes: The whole concept of the game play revolves around the concept of disruption. In most cases you will find a disrupted unit will always retreat except if ZOC or Stacking preclude it. The key to the winning the game is to avoid disruption in the first place and you have come up with an additional way to have your units disrupted. This will probably help to prevent a defense in depth and make it easier to roll up your lines.:soap: JMHO

As fas as 'killer stacks' The old SSI games including 'Mech Brigade'-you park a division on an objective hex and let the AI attack it piecemeal. ( I started wargaming on an Apple IIE -no hard drive and 64kb of memory):smoke:

[Volcano Man]

One idea would be to allow "partial retreats" just as (I think) Napoleonic and Civil War games do. Instead of completely eliminating a stack that cannot retreat, then I think it determines the amount of empty space in neighboring hexes and disperses the remnants of the units into them.

I suppose you would still get the majority of your overstack eliminated in most cases, but in those cases where you have 51% stacking limit in one hex after assault losses, and they are trying to retreat into a hex with 50% stacking limit, then it could be greatly beneficial instead of losing 500 men because only 490 will fit in the hex.

[Marquo]

"rather than bunch up a bit to escape capture"

...or being cut down like fleeing dogs by an aggressive and pissed off attacker?

The example posted was simply an example of a passionate but inexperienced player learning a valuable lesson in game mechanics. As alluded to in prior responses, it is better to learn how to keep retreat lanes open by planning ahead, than changing the mechanics which otherwise work well.

BTW, another reason not to reward bunching units too close and then offereing a free retreat ticket, is that this will allow more move and assaulting in the same turn as units will not have to be kept back to allow for eventual retreat.

Patience, it's all in the game.

Marquo :)

[Mr Grumpy]

"rather than bunch up a bit to escape capture"

...or being cut down like fleeing dogs by an aggressive and pissed off attacker?

The example posted was simply an example of a passionate but inexperienced player learning a valuable lesson in game mechanics. As alluded to in prior responses, it is better to learn how to keep retreat lanes open by planning ahead, than changing the mechanics which otherwise work well.

BTW, another reason not to reward bunching units too close and then offereing a free retreat ticket, is that this will allow more move and assaulting in the same turn as units will not have to be kept back to allow for eventual retreat.

Patience, it's all in the game.

Marquo :)

As always, great post.......:bow:

[TET2]

Gentlemen,

I agree with Marquo. The central tactical application of strategy in PzC is a simple one: disrupt, encircle, destroy...repeat as often as necessary!

Tobias