RS Sorrow on Saipan - Design Notes

[Huib Versloot]

Wow!
I would have liked to have seen an Allied minor in our tests.
We could never get that! Even after all the revisions.

I was starting to think that balance was impossible.



HSL

Perhaps I was abit lucky in dodging the Naval bombardments by moving constantly. Nonetheless, at least 3 times I saw a -3SP when a fortified hex was hit by the naval guns.

[Kool Kat]

Perhaps I was abit lucky in dodging the Naval bombardments by moving constantly. Nonetheless, at least 3 times I saw a -3SP when a fortified hex was hit by the naval guns.

Yes. Playing the Japanese, and being on the "receiving end" of the 14 inch shells... I constantly witnessed 3-4 strength point reductions with any troops unlucky enough to be caught in the bombardment - even within bunkers!

[Otto von Blotto]

I was starting to think that balance was impossible.

Never say never Ed?

Waiting for one more test game to conclude... than I can work on and upload the new version 1.3! I can't wait!

That will be me and Antoni, we are over half way through so won't be long now. FYI in case you never saw on version 1.2 we recorded a Japanese minor win.

[Herr Straße Laufer]

LOL!
I did not say to throw the towel in.

And, you said never when you said, "never say never"?

Long night. Lack of sleep. Long day ahead.



HSL

[Otto von Blotto]

Me and Antoni's game is now done and reports posted.

[Kool Kat]

Me and Antoni's game is now done and reports posted.

Thanks gents!

I've received the H2H Test Report... will incorporate the feedback from all play testers into the next version of my "Sorrow on Saipan."

Version 1.3 (Updated January 28, 2012) has been uploaded into the H2H Testing Area! You can read about the Version 1.3 update in Post #3 of this thread!

[Kool Kat]

Gents:

I've uploaded my Rising Sun "Sorrow on Saipan" version 1.4 into the H2H Testing Area.

Version 1.4 (Uploaded February 14, 2012)

Japanese

Added 1x 75mm gun (off board)
Added 3x rifle platoons (on path behind engineers)
Added 1x 70mm mortar
Increased strength of 80mm Dual Purpose guns from 2 to 3

Many thanks to all play testers! :)

This will be the last version.

[Huib Versloot]

Gents:

I've uploaded my Rising Sun "Sorrow on Saipan" version 1.4 into the H2H Testing Area.

Version 1.4 (Uploaded February 14, 2012)

Japanese

Added 1x 75mm gun (off board)
Added 3x rifle platoons (on path behind engineers)
Added 1x 70mm mortar
Increased strength of 80mm Dual Purpose guns from 2 to 3

Many thanks to all play testers! :)

This will be the last version.

Personally I think it will remain seriously off balance with these minor changes. Perhaps with EA "on" there is a minimal chance, but there is no way the Japs will ever score a major vic without changing the vic conditions.
It would have been better to have made radical changes and then end somewhere in the middle with the last version. If this is the last version, it is impossible that it passes H2H as a balanced scenario and hence puts the credibility of H2H testing and all scns that go there at stake. Ofcourse you can decide to not let it pass, but the scenario has enough potential. It seems to me the in this case H2H info from many different players rather led to confusion than that it helped you.
Anyway it's your baby...

Huib

[Kool Kat]

Personally I think it will remain seriously off balance with these minor changes.

Six other play testers have different opinions on balance?

Each play tester has provided me with valuable input and comments for my scenario. I have adopted some of these ideas. Other ideas I have rejected. A scenario developer has the right to decide what changes should be done to his creation? Huib, you provided some of the most valuable input with your map elevation changes and repositioning of the naval off board artillery support.

Perhaps with EA "on" there is a minimal chance, but there is no way the Japs will ever score a major vic without changing the vic conditions.
It would have been better to have made radical changes and then end somewhere in the middle with the last version.

Historically, a Japanese "victory" centered on their ability to delay, harass, and inflict as much damage as possible against the American Marines. The scenario description explains the situation faced by the Japanese clearly... and other test players concur with that assessment... based on their H2H Report data and email notes shared with me.

If this is the last version, it is impossible that it passes H2H as a balanced scenario and hence puts the credibility of H2H testing and all scns that go there at stake.

Each scenario that goes through the H2H Testing process is judged on its own merits and playability by multiple play testers. My "Sorrow on Saipan" scenario has received high ratings in balance, enjoyment, and briefing ratings from six different play testers. - 19 different H2H Reports. This scenario may be the most tested and evaluated creation to ever go through the CS H2H process. Every revision I have developed has utilized input and comments derived from the H2H Reports. Many folks are playing it and enjoying their overall experience. Looks like the H2H Testing process is working as intended?

[Huib Versloot]

Hmm, if I counted well all testreports but one (of the player with the lowest ELO) show a US win. I fear this will continue when it's available on the ladder with so minor changes. Time will tell.
The high ratings in most testreports on this scenario are absurd. Not saying that it isn't a fun and promising scenario, but IMO you can't give high ratings until a scn is perceived as balanced.
At least that is what I thought was the purpose of H2H; to have a section where you could download scenarios that are approved for Human versus human on balance.
Personally I've always said that you can only use statistics to see if a scn is balanced and not opinions and therefore the H2H section seems to add little to improve the number of balanced scenarios out there.
I've had it with one of my own scenarios. In the H2H everybody said it was great, later on the ladder one side won all the time. I then adjusted it.

Huib