Possibility of these games?

Outlaw Josey Wales · 06-30-2012, 02:08 AM,

Just wondering if there was the possibility of these games in some sort of PzC system or something similar.........

French in Indochina
U.S. in same or one continuous from French through the U.S. involvement.

Just wondering of any kind of interest.

JDR Dragoon · (This post was last modified: 06-30-2012, 04:46 AM by JDR Dragoon.)

The game system cannot accurately represent the defining characteristics of these wars (apart possibly from the late actions in 1854 and 1972/1975).

Outlaw Josey Wales · 07-01-2012, 01:28 AM,

Surely there has to be some sort of system and enough interest to come up with a good game for both of these wars. I'm not talking SBs on such a small scale, those games are good, I'm talking something that covers the whole country with units like in PzCs, but some kind of system that will fit the way the wars were fought or at least close. PzCs system is pretty good, but we all know wars aren't fought by taking turns. Coming up with a system that would cover them is probably the same reason why there hasn't been a strategic type of game covering the American West as well.

JDR Dragoon · (This post was last modified: 07-01-2012, 01:39 AM by JDR Dragoon.)

The problem is, that you cannot prohibit the allied player (ARVN+friends) from moving into areas that were historically "no-go" (Laos, N. Vietnam etc.), apart from house rules. In addition, there is little way to model the political constraints on use of weapons (cease fires, bombing stops etc.). A possible way to represent he communist forces disengaging at will, would be to make all of their units "Deception" units, thus allowing them to go into deception mode on top of another friendly unit, only to reappear next turn as they are recalled.

Outlaw Josey Wales · 07-02-2012, 02:39 AM,

Going into historical no go areas could be house rule or by scenario rule if it happened, it's an automatic major loss or make it to where it could cost a fair amount of victory points. Another what if scenario where anything goes with no loss of points or something, trigger reinforcements or any other ideas. Cease fires and bombing stops could also be set historically, triggered when certain conditions are met or overlooked altogether in a what if scenario. All three of those conflicts are overlooked on a strategic and/or operational level.

Unit levels could be anywhere from bns and broken down into companies and then companies could still be broken down further into platoons if somebody wants to go that far all in the same game system, at least down to company level.

People get to decide what units to bring into the area or withdraw, whatever. I know there was a board game made for the U.S. in Vietnam and if a board game can be made for it, a computer game can be done and done better. I believe that.

JDR Dragoon · 07-02-2012, 06:12 AM,

Well, there was a computer game made that sounds quite like what you want. Bit old though (1991):

http://www.mobygames.com/game/nam-1965-1975

The problem is, that what you are proposing will require some kind of political barometer (how fired up is the US/allied population? Is the government of the RVN willing to make the necessary social reforms that will effectively defuse the VC? How heavily will the communist block commit? How effectively can the givernments of Laos and Cambodia resist the delegitimizing effects of secret US bombings and later outright invasions? etc. etc.)

Another obvious problem is this: The game would be prohibitively long, even if you made the scale 1 turn = 1 day (which would make no sense in a game featuring tactical units as small as platoons).

No, I believe that if you want to do the Vietnam War(s) within the PzC/MC series, you have to stick to the mostly conventional phases. That means roughly the Dien Bien Phu campaign (1954, siege lasts 57 days = 57x7 = about 400 turns), the 1972 Easter Offensive (200 days, various phases from late march-late october, 200x7 = 1400 turns) or the final 1975 offensive (mid december to late april, about 140 days or 980 turns). You could of course cut down on the number of turns or just do sub campaigns (like say the battle for Kontum in 1972).