Helping Test New Danube Front Update

[JDR Dragoon]

Suggested corrections to the WAPA parts of the OOB. Some of these are definite musts (like the TIS equipped T80s....), others are more points of debate.

WAPA in general:


-There are quite a lot of Army Group HQs (Fronts) hanging around. The OOB has a grand total of 5 Front HQs for WAPA that starts the game on-table (HQ Maritime Front is off-map). 2 Soviet (HQ GSFG, HQ CGF), 1 East German, 1 Polish, and 1 Czechoslovakian. The soviet HQs of course leads soviet units, while the WAPA allies each leads their respective national contingents. The problem here is, that this leads to over-utilization of one front HQs, who have a larger span of control than most of the others combined (HQ GSFG, controlling 5 armies), while some of the other Front HQs are barely utilized (HQ NVA as the best example, followed by HQ CGF). In addition, having each allied contingent under its own nationl Front HQ also presents problems, since these units might be advancing in radically different strategic directions. For instance, the NVA Front HQ starts near Berlin, controlling some of the units there, but also exercises control over an NVA army advancing to the north or west, up into the Jutland peninsula or along the North Sea coast, plus another NVA army advancing directly west in direction Bonn. Needless to say, this Front HQ cannot exercise efficient control over its constituent parts. This goes for almost all Front HQs apart from the Czechoslovakian and the CGF, whose divisions and armies start conveniently close to each other and are unlikely to stray. A likely solution here would be to change the allegiance of some of these armies to other Front HQs, so that each front on average controls 3 armies depending on strategic direction (so the polish front HQ might get the polish 1st army, the NVA 5th Army, the soviet 2 GTA and possibly the NGF as well). Nothing in our extant exercises suggests that the NVA was supposed to form its own Front by the way.


Soviet specific:

-The presence of the soviet Maritime units (Baltic Naval Infantry Brigade, Naval Spetznaz battalion) on this part of the map and in this context is contentious. We know from east German and polish exercises, that from the 1970s and onwards, the Naval Infantry brigade had no planned contingency mission in the western baltic. This might mean, that it would be used against Sweden or Finland, or possibly reserved for an invasion of southern Norway during the later parts of the war. The same goes for the Naval Spetznaz: They are much more likely found trying to fix limpet mines to danish minelayers or scouting out likely landing beaches than swanning around the Jutland Peninsula (besides, if soviet naval special forces are present, why are their NATO counterparts not?). Besides, given the current setup of the stock scenarios, there are more than enough WAPA deception units to go around.

-It is likely that some of the army level 130mm M46 gun battalions would have been replaced with 2S5 self-propelled or 2a36 towed 152mm guns by 1985, but I do not know which units.

-T80 equipped battalions in Motorrifle Regiments have Thermal Sights (example: 94th GMRD/2GTA, 39GMRD/8GA), whereas the ones in Tank Regiments doesn´t. Surely this is an oversight, and the THermal Sights should be deleted.



Polish specific:

-In most of the exercises we have extant, both the polish Airborne Division and Naval Division had no wartime role on this part of the map. They might profitably be left out of scenarios untill the relevant parts of the map has been included in the game (danish islands east of the Great Belt).

-One of the polish mechanized division (plus attending army/front level engineer and artillery assets) would likely have been earmarked as a follow on force for the invasion of the danish isles east of the Great Belt. Units commensurate with this number can thus be left out of the main scenario(s).



East German Specific:

-In most exercises from the late 1960s and forward, the East German units with amphibious training were slated for another war destination (invasion of danish isles south of Zealand). They can thus be left out of the current scenario untill this part of the map is present. If they are to be seperated from their parent division in this way, they should get their own HQ or simply be directly subordinated to a superior HQ with a long command range.

-Nothing, apart from the notorius defector and liar "Suvorov", suggests that the so called "Diversionary Battalion 40" equipped with NATO equipment ever existed. Very few of the vechiles this unit was supposed to have has been found after 1990 either, and no trace of it exists in NVA OOBs. It can thus be deleted (due to the current setup it starts too far away from the NVA Front HQ as well, and thus has no way of recuperating from "Low/Fuel" ammo when playing w. VST).

-The number of NVA Mi-24 Hinds is about twice as big as it should (KHG-3 had 19 Mi-24 and 13 Mi-8TB in 1986 for instance).

-The army level artillery of both NVA armies represents peacetime strenghts. Mobilization should add another two 130mm gun battalions plus two additional rocket artillery battalions (I don´t know for how long the NVA persisted in using the BM-240 though).

[Taffy6]

Woohoo! The new 2D zoom has completely fixed the graphics "glitches" I have been having with my personal computer combo of Windows 7, SLI'd video cards and the older PzC/MC games. Brilliant!

Not to bog down this engine test thread in scenario-specific stuff, but I am still working on a monster-mod called Zapad '85 (set in June 1985) with an OOB that largely addresses many (most) of the default campaign's chain of command issues and unit placement, strategies etc. Now that I can see the map again without all the zoom glitches I was having before this beta patch, I can finish the work and get it out there for community input. I'll have to re-work the custom map I made (correcting misplaced default towns, adding airbases etc) because now I am seeing double lables for some reason but hey, this beta patch is great great great!

Hopefully no one will find any bugs and you guys can release it.

Very grateful,

Taffy 6

[JDR Dragoon]

Here are some comments and errors in the various stock scenarios. I intend to conclude these lists some time early next week, after having had access to a military library to check up on some details.

Errors, omissions and/or debatable points in specific scenarios:



-850610_01s: West Germany Invaded: War in 1985 (WP vs AI):
-850610_01as: West Germany Invaded: War in 1985 (HTH)

--PzBtl 563/56th Heimatschutzbrigade/II Korps at 169,456 is not Fixed at start in an of the above scenarios, despite the fact that it (and the rest of the brigade) has this status in any of the other DF85 scenarios.

--The same point as above applies to 2/48 PzG/11 PzG brigade at 267,518.

--Faarp/664th AC/BAOR Army Troops (at 164,156) is not fixed at start, even though the helicopters it is supporting are.

--A bunch of belgian reserve units starts the game around Wuppertal Unfixed, despite the fact that the remnants of these units doesn´t show up for several days (relevant units: 4th Ligne/10th Mech Brigade at 40,186, 2nd Chasseurs Ardennais/12th Motinf Brigade at 48,182, 15th Field Artillery + HQ 12th Motinf Brigade at 49,183)

--The soviet 900th Air Assault Battalion at 154,284 starts the game close enough to the border to envelop NATO units on the first turn (primarily the Panzergrenadier Battalions in Mellrichstadt, but they might also be used to surround 11. ACR units). The problem here is, that the unit is A Morale. There is thus little-to no possibility for the NATO player to shunt them aside. An idea might be to deploy them further back (like all other WAPA airmobile infantry battalions).

--A similar problem to the above excists along the Elbe-Seiten kanal from Knesebeck to Uelzen, where the soviet 35th Air Assault Brigade arrives on turn 1, which will in most cases isolate several NATO units before they can react. An idea here might be to either consolidate the NATO units into more survivable combined units on the "defensive" side of the canal (that is, the western side) or delay the arrival of the brigade for a turn.






-850610_01s: West Germany Invaded: War in 1985 (WP vs AI):
-850610_01as: West Germany Invaded: War in 1985 (HTH)
-850610_02s: War on the Danube Front (WP vs AI)
-850610_02sa: War on the Danube Front (HTH)
-850610_03s: Danube Front Short Campaign (WP vs AI)
-850610_03sa: The Danube Front - Short Campaign (HTH)
-850610_04s: The Danube Front with Austria (WP vs AI)
-850610_04sa: The Danube Front with Austria (HTH)

--The B/2-3 ADA/3brigade(FWD)/1st Inf. Division/VII Corps (at 57,392) is not fixed like the rest of the brigade in any of the above scenarios.

--Some more strategy options for the Czechoslovakian 22nd Airborne regiment would be nice. As it is, the current options and arrival time/points means, that it often gets cornered up against the Danube and destroyed before the WAPA player can do anything (you can of course delay its arrival, but some players take a dim view on this).






-850610_02s: War on the Danube Front (WP vs AI)
-850610_02sa: War on the Danube Front (HTH)
-850610_03s: Danube Front Short Campaign (WP vs AI)
-850610_03sa: The Danube Front - Short Campaign (HTH)
-850610_04s: The Danube Front with Austria (WP vs AI)
-850610_04sa: The Danube Front with Austria (HTH)

--In all of the above scenarios the 13th AVN Btn/3rd US Inf Div (Mech) (at 121,49) starts the game not Fixed, despite the fact that it is Fixed in the West Germany Invaded large campaign scenario.





-850610_01s: West Germany Invaded: War in 1985 (WP vs AI):
-850610_01as: West Germany Invaded: War in 1985 (HTH)
-850610_04s: The Danube Front with Austria (WP vs AI)
-850610_04sa: The Danube Front with Austria (HTH)
-850610_11s: Swatting Flies in the South (WP vs AI)
-850610_11sa: Swatting Flies in the South (HTH)

--In all of these scenarios parts of the french 27th Alpine Division arrives as a strategy option, yet the unit is missing its divisional HQ, and cannot draw a line of command to a higher HQ, since the Force d´Action d´Rapide is missing a Corps HQ. This means, that divisional level units such as engineers and artillery cannot resupply once they run low on ammo or fuel.

--Two companies of the 15th Jäger BTN/6th Jäger Brigade starts the game on their respective mountaintop hexes where they can´t move away from. Worse still, if you put them into "Travel" mode in the hope that this will facilitate their getaway, they can´t change back into "Normal" movement mode again (the two companies in question are the 1/15 JG at coordinate 19,49 and the 3/15 JG at 22,46 (ccordinates here are from the "swatting Flies" scenario)). Putting them "On Foot" won´t help either.





-850610_08: Ardennes of the 80s? (WP vs AI)
-850610_08a: Ardennes of the 80s? (HTH)
-850610_08b: Ardennes of the 80s? (NATO vs AI)

--All of the above scenarios suffers due to the fact, that the NATO german II Korps HQ is not on the map. This means, that all Corps units (and divisional units without access to brigade/div HQ) are unable to resupply.

[JDR Dragoon]

The proposed individual changes for 1.02:

- Added Magnified 2D view with 2x sized graphics.

Appears to work fine, at least on my older rig. Scrolling is flawless, although the resolution gets a pit "pixelated" at times, but I am guessing that this is a "feature" rather than a "bug".

- Change so that Disrupted units do not receive replacements and
Detached units receive replacements at one-fourth (not one-half) the
normal rate.

Seems to work as advertised, but it is hard to ascertain whether or not detached units receive their replacements more slowenly, since this calculation takes place "under the hood" hidden away from the player.

- Change to allow Battleships to fire AA at high flying aircraft.

Not tested, since it didn´t really seem relevant.

- Added new Forced Bridge Crossing Rule which allows units to force a
bridge crossing against enemy ZOC (see Users Manual under Movement).

Unquestionably works BUT ONLY ON HEXSIDE BRIDGES! If you are trying to cross a full-hex bridge and the enemy is ZOC-blocking the exit-hex, you are stuck in travel mode on a bridge spanning a full hex river.

- Increased Engineer digging in bonus from 2x to 3x.

This also seems to work as advertised, an engineer or a unit assisted by an engineer, can now dig in at a very brisk pace. Very appropriate, since a major staple of the equipment park of modern engineer units is earthmoving equipment.

- Added toolbar button for highlighting units in Travel Mode.

Appears to work flawlessly. When this button is pressed, and you take a unit out of Travel Mode, it even stops being highlighted any more, and if you put it back into Travel Mode, it is highlighted again. Good work.

- Added new Bunker and Mine Prob Parameter Data Values and allowing
non-bridge engineer units to construct Bunkers.

Yes, so I see. But none of the stock .pdt files have so far been modified to have a "bunker prob" value, and I reckon that the "mine probability" is simply just 50% of the "Digging in" value by default (although it would seem that having it as a seperate value means, that you can adjust it independently of the Digging In value).

- Added new Night Move Disruption parameter data value which determines
probability of night movement by non-rail and non-travel or
non-road movement units causing Disruption.

Probably works as intended, but I couldn´t test it, since none of the stock .pdt´s have so far been updated and the value is 0% per default.

- Change so that Interdiction attacks have twice the chance of Disruption
and can cause the loss of up to half the movement allowance in movement
points.

Works as advertised, but it is hard to be certain whether or not a unit hit by interdiction really has twice the chance of Disruption, since the calculation is hidden.

- Added a range 1 hard target artillery fire modifier (see Users Manual
under Firing).

The Users Manual has not yet been updated, So I cannot really ascertain what this rule is about. I am guessing, that an artillery unit firing at a hard target at 1-hex gets to multiply its hard Attack value by this factor? In the stock .pdt´s this value is set to 1, and thus doesn´t matter.

- Added Optional Rule for delayed reporting of enemy Disruption.

Works.

- Change so that towed AT gun unit which changes to Travel Mode after
firing at most once before the change will not trigger enemy
Opportunity Fire.

Also seems to work as intended, although whether or not the unit triggers opportunity fire seems to rest upon whether it has spent MPs, and not whether it has fired or not ;)

- Added Quality Fire Modifier Parameter Data Value which applies to
quality A and B units.

The Users Manual has not yet been updated, So I cannot really ascertain what this rule is about. I am guessing, that an A or B quality unit firing gets to multiply its Attack value by this factor? In the stock .pdt´s this value is set to 1, and thus doesn´t matter.

- Change so that half Frozen Penalty is applied only to Urban (Village, Town, City, and Industrial) hexes.

Not tested since it didn´t really seem relevant.


Overall I am very impressed with these changes, mos of which goes a long way towards redressing the advantage the attacking/phasing player used to hold. This will make the task of defending so much more viable and will insure that the attacker will need appropriate odds and thorough preparation.

[Crazy Dutch]

Hey isnt there only a patch right before a new release........

Helo Tazaaron

Now a new patch is released is there also a update of youre Bolt of the Blue scenario in the pipeline?