Bite the Bullet Tournament Medal Poll

[Skryabin]

I dont see a crime here also. But if there there is a problem anyway you can use this cross:



instade of swastika.

Btw there is a book on this site:



We may ask to change that cover too

[Ashcloud]

or this one:

[Scud]

or this one:

I vote for this one. Perfect, nice job.

Dave

[Larry Reese]

Greetings gents,

I’d like to offer the following information for the record and discussion:

In Germany, Strafgesetzbuch § 86a makes it a criminal offense to display the swastika (among other things) with a few exceptions for scholarly purposes and as religious symbols of Jainism, Buddhism, and other denominations. EU Commission efforts in 2001 and Germany efforts in the mid-2000s aiming to extend this law to the entire EU were unsuccessful (primarily for religious reasons).

Germany's position is mirrored in Austria’s criminal statutes as well. In Hungary it is illegal (punishable by fine) to display any totalitarian symbolism (this includes the hammer and sickle as well). In Poland, public display of Nazi symbols is a criminal offence punishable by up to eight years of imprisonment (Poland has broadened this to include Soviet symbology as well, with the banning of Che Guevara t-shrits for example - he has a star on his beret - I've been curious though because in some versions the star is black, does that pass, or if the star is removed entirely but Che is still recognizeable? But I digress). Interestingly enough, Brazil also has laws resulting in imprisonment for display of the swastika (among other things).

While most of my exposure to EU law came in the mid-90s involving beer import/export (a much more enjoyable topic, let me tell you), I am familiar with US laws allowing the display of the symbol to used as evidence of hate crimes and these various EU member nations statutes. Also, the “servers sit in Canada” arguments have been tried in other contexts and have been found spurious. It’s the same as broadcasting into a country from an outside source (say child pornography or other offensive material similiarly prohibited by law) and then trying to say that nation has no right to enforce its laws to prevent such violations. Courts tend not to buy that for reasons I won’t get into here.

Like I said, I’m not trying to tell anyone what to believe, I’m making the argument that the club as a whole should make an informed decision regarding the affirmative display of this and any other symbol that is considered illegal in some jurisdictions or carries huge potential baggage the would reflect very badly on the club and its membership if misconstrued. How this decision is made is irrelevant to me (by vote, by executive decision, whatever…). Groups carry a heavy responsibility when professing to speak for all their members. We should not make such decisions lightly.

On the topic of the Red Star, for example, I personally feel that this is far less offensive, but my personal feelings are irrelevant to the issue and I would completely support prohibiting its use in club-offered medals and such, for the same reasons stated above. One of my job duties for clients is to point out worst case scenarios and in this case, technically, the club could be sued in these jurisdictions. Note, I’m not saying it would be, only that the law would allow it, nor am I making any pronouncement on whether such a suit would be successful (far too much would depend on the specifics involved for one thing), only that it is possible. For all these reasons, I recommend against it, but it is not my final decision, but the club’s.

Thanks for reading that ramble, and I'd like to add again that I think that bite out of the bullet symbol is outstanding. A far more talented artist than I.

LR

[Herr Straße Laufer]

Since we are allowed to state personal beliefs?

As I said, two sides of the same evil socialist coin.
One was Nationalistic Fascism. The other World Domination Communism (the so called Union). Both socialist.
One was in power for a limited time and systematically murdered people. The other was in power for much longer and systematically murdered people.

Both were evils that were worthy of being eradicated.
Both symbols are equal representations of evil.

Off the box. Back to normal programming.



HSL

[Ashcloud]

or this one:

[Herr Straße Laufer]

I like the first "contender" one.



HSL

[Crossroads]

I like the second one. The first one is far toooo sexy for the old crowd such as us. Already I hear people fainting around me as they forget to breathe.

Ed:

I am reading about the War memoirs of Colonel W. Halsti, a veteran of three wars (Winter, Continuation, Lapland). He records in the book, written in 1972, a dialogue he had with a reporter from Life, who was following the events of eradiction of Germans from Lapland.

The reporter would have none of the critique towards the Soviets, as they were great friends of US and would just need to be understood and interpreted in a correct manner.

Colonel Halsti then replies, in October 1944 and if he actually did that at the time and not at the time of putting his memoirs down, as Vietnam war was raging, it's pretty incredible:

"You do realise, that once you've put down the Japanese and Hitler, you need to become the world police, again? And when you do, the problems you have now are like this (points to a matchbox in the table), and after, the problems are like that (points to a tall fir tree outside the tent)."

Life Magazine reporter, who's name is not revealed, of course would have none of that, at the time.

Later, at the time of Korean War where the reporter was now assigned, Colonel Halsti receives a post card from him: "Sir, the fir tree you pointed to me at the time was way too small!".

Unfortunately, the reporter died in an ambush when doing his work, so he never had a chance to meet him again.

[Herr Straße Laufer]

Yes, Petri, it is not only perspective but the perspective of what the "higher powers" think we should have?

The good Colonel W. Halsti saw the truth and was willing to speak it. The reporter saw only what someone told him was the truth and he believed it?

Little did either know that the match to the fir tree is now a forest of matches and fir trees.
The old saying is true. Sometimes you cannot see the forest for the trees?

Unless, like Colonel Halsti, you can cut your way through the forest of deceit and observe the clear fields of truth?



HSL

[Crossroads]

A damn fine book, unfortunately not available in english. An old soldier puts down his thoughts in the middle of the early seventies and its peace movement. Does it in a witty, sharp but humane manner. Lots of sharp analysis what makes a good officer, and what not.