Tourney Idea

[Gila]

Just dropped in & this sounds interesting, just a thought or two based on my understanding of what you are trying to achieve.

With the exception of integral artillery such as mortars most should be offboard & the CG should assign from the pool to the various maps as he sees fit.

Same could apply to air support perhaps limiting the CG to XX amount of sorties, use them early or save.

Also as a slight balancer if a side losses ground it might get extra ammo resupply options due to its supply route not being extended.

Don't think offmap arty should ever be used in tourney b/c it's abstract costs for sides, mucks up the design as well as air assets,how can one make it "somewhat fair" to both sides?
Most important don't like any ammo reload in any battle myself.

[low_bidder]

I'm your daisy. Is there any way the players can help? 5 per side means 10 file sets per turn( i think, my basic math skills are questionable nowadays) 20 turns would be 200 file sets, which means 400 file transfers. Surely there is something players can do to lighten the work load.

[Outlaw Josey Wales]

Sounds similar to something I was suggesting in Squad Battles. Two or more face off with a division of commander's choosing. Each would have the entire div to pull units onto the map. One may end up with his whole div in the fight where the other guy felt he could continue to fight and win with just one bde, never getting to the rest of the div. It would be all up to the commanders. In what you are promoting, with teams, you should make up the entire div for each side, including arty and any supporting units including attached bns or bdes from other diivs if you see fit. Many times, rgts and bdes from other divs were assigned to other divs for different reasons. The Germans were obvious, but the U.S. attached an inf rgt to U.S. Arm Divs on many occasions because of their lack of inf support from within. It sounds like a good idea, but, each CinC should be supplied with an overall map of the entire battlefield, since that would be his responsibility. The subordinates would only be concerned with their own area and maybe the area to each flank, but that would be up to the tourney chief. However, it has been awhile since I played SPs and this sounds like a good reason to play it again, so you can count me in. I like the historical unit idea rather than the purchase what you want. This could even be done as a hypothetical encounter between any forces of your choosing with actual units. Example, 1SS Pz Div vs 2 AD, 3 AD or Brit Guards Arm Div. With enough people, it could even be bigger like 1SS Pz Corps vs whatever or go for an entire battle like Market-Garden. Don't want to get too big with less people though as interest would probably wane, but MG always seems to be first in mind when thinking of larger battles. Anyway, it is your baby and sounds good to me and am willing to give it a go. Div+ vs Div+ sounds the best.

[low_bidder]

Way back when, Double Duce did a tourney like that. I helped him with the maps. This was pre-cammo. Pre-matrix, IIRC. So a lot of the tools taken for granted today didn't exist. IIRC, maps were limited to 20x20, or maybe 40x40. Pretty small. The battle was fought on a 4 by 3 grid of those maps. I never learned how it ended. My opponent dropped and I couldn't find a replacement so I dropped too. Or was dropped, don't actually remember.
"Himmler's War" by Conway or Conroy. Something like that. Good read. I was rooting for Jeb. Pity he got roasted.

[oldrocky]

I just returned after 3 months travel. I went thru 4 laptops during my travels with the last being stolen along with my flash drive and all my CD games. I now need to regroup because I cant'/won't be able to do it with out the CD version, ( and a computer), and I will be back ASAP.

oldrocky

[Walrus]

Sounds like a nightmare mission.
Sorry to hear of your laptop troubles.
Good luck getting back up into SP mode!

[low_bidder]

Now that the OP-B tournament is coming to a close I propose a tournament based on the hypothesis that the 20th July assassination attempt on Hitler was successful and the competent and able German General Staff were allowed to conduct operations for the remainder of the war unhindered by the unrealistic and amateurish dictates from the Fuhrer.

The tournament battles will involve the 116 Panzer Division delaying against the reinforced US 2nd Armored Division.This Tourney will consider that instead of conducting the ill fated Mortain counter attack which precipitated the Falaise Pocket debacle and the destruction of the Wehrmacht 7th Army we shall suppose that the prudent German Commander instead opted to withdraw from Normandy after being threatened on the left flank by the successful Allied COBRA.operation.

Historically the 116 Panzer Div had only just reached the Normandy AO at the end of July after being in reserve near Calaise. It's force structure is established using records obtained during research. The 2nd AD (Heavy) is considered to be at full strength and will be reinforced by an Infantry Regimental Combat Team and several ground attack air squadrons.

The Tourney will be TEAM PLAY. You do not have to achieve an individual win against your opponent to achieve victory in each round. You may lose your individual game but still be awarded a V if your team wins the round.

Each team will be Commanded by a Commanding General (CG). The CG will issue orders to his subordinate commanders depending on the overall operational conditions of each 20 turn game segment. There will be 4 to 6 ( depending on number of players ) interconnecting maps that will represent the total battle area. At the end of each 20 turn game segment units may transfer from one map to another. Only the CG will have the overall picture of the total battle conditions therefore his orders may not be agreeable or understood by his subordinates. Imagine that a map 3 player is in full pursuit of his routed enemy but is ordered to halt his advance and transfer units from his command to an adjacent map at the end of a 20 turn game segment. He may be unaware that a teammate on the flank is in desperate need of reinforcements or the CG may see an opportunity for an attack into the enemy flank from an adjacent map.

I will not play but rather shall I be the Game Master. I will conduct the initial deployment as per instructions from the CGs as to where he wants his forces deployed and under which of his commanders. After each 20 turn game segment I will edit the individual battle maps and enter units that have been ordered to transfer from one map to another. All other units will remain exactly where they were when the 20 turn game segment ended and the new game shall continue from where it left off from the previous game.

There will be more rules of play which I shall submit if there is enough interest shown for this game concept. Would you fellows be interested in this type of tourney?

Actually, the German attack WAS the prudent course. It just didn't work. Not attacking would have produced the same results. Wars are won by logistics, NOT tactics. Allied air power had smashed the logistics web that supported the Nazi's in France. 9th Tac Air had pretty much shut down the trickle of supplies that were getting past the destroyed bridges, upturned tracks, guerrilla attacks, etc.
The OKW was in a use it or lose it condition on the 116th Panzer. Either attack or wait for the fuel and ammo to run out.
The Allies, 8,000 miles or more from the factories, had a much better supply situation then the Nazi's did 800 miles from their factories. If that. Europe is a tiny place.
This was even before any of the major ports were got in order. IIRC, in April of '44, the USA produced more aircraft in one month then Nazi Germany did during the entire war.
Read "Panzer Commander". Now Von Luck will spin a tale or two but basically he had it figured out from the get go. 'Panthers are better then Shermans. But when you only have 10 rounds for the main gun and 12 Shermans come over the hill, you leave. IF you are out of petrol, you get out and wave something white with your hands in the air.'

But it's just a game so count me in. How about after that tournament we let Patton drive Monty back into the sea?

[roman]

Very interesting the proposal Brett Oldrocky. This would add an operational level the game. Something had happened to me but it is good that someone is actually using.
One question: What about casualties? Do you also recover or would edit the units?
I can play but at the level of battalion commander. Someone experienced is division chief.

[Buckaroo]

I'm ready for either side and will help however I can. (Wish I'd seen this thread sooner.)