Tobruck41 and the 88's

[dragonslayer2001]

I am a long time gamer but fairly new to the PZC series. I've got the Tobruck41 game and found the 88's way too weak. Almost useless, so I was playing with the factors. I have NOT played the game much so I am asking for what longer term players of the system think.

I downloaded Volcano man's patches and alt scenarios.

However, I still thought that the 88's were not strong enough but have only done Brevity and Battleaxe.

I upped the factor to 90 hard attack factors but haven't gamed enough to see the effects. I've been gaming with my brother and we've had many issues with passwords and game corruption so that really has not advanced very far.

So gamers, 90 attack factors too much?

I've read a lot of history on the N African Campaign, and have played a few weekends of Chadwick's (?) monster Crusader game with a bunch of old grognards in Cali. Offshoots of the old People's Wargames brood.


The Brits feared that gun and I just didn't see it in the game.

Thanks

don

[Ricky B]

I think some of the 88's reputation was exaggerated, but I think most prior discussions have agreed that the weapons don't get enough kills in the game. So go for 90 and see what happens.

And welcome!
Rick

[dragonslayer2001]

thanks Rick. I know in N Africa the Brits had a good respect for the 88's by the time of Crusader.

And hope I enjoy the time here!

don

[Mr Grumpy]

Well that is the great thing about these games, if you disagree with the weapon ratings you can change them to any value you like, not many games give you that feature.

In both the stock and VM scenarios the 88's have a 52 HA rating, so there should be a noticeable effect by increasing it to 90.

[Dog Soldier]

The 52 rating may not outright destroy too many vehicles because of two factors.

1. Small number of 88mm guns in the battery. The direct fire algorithm will score more kills with a 12 gun battery than three 4 gun batteries.

2. The small size of the target units. Units with five vehicles or less seem harder to score kills on than larger formations with say 30 vehicles.

I would now say that kills are not all they are cracked up to be. The battery of 88mm AA guns in an ATG role will cause a lot of fatigue and many more disruptions than the 50mm or other one hex range ATG in the stock or VM scenarios. Being a defensive weapon, disruption at greater than one hex range is a very good thing.

Place the 88mm in a fortified position like Halfya Pass, Fort Capuzzo, or the few elevated terrain features and you have an obstacle that will hold up the British significantly until help arrives. Do not expect the 88mm guns to hold off a large force with just the few support units that are found around such positions. At the time of Brevity and Battle Axe the 88mm guns could halt the British attack, disrupt the British formations making the British ripe for a counter stroke from Afrika Corps tanks.

PzIII tanks were the workhorse of AK in T41. Those in T41 should be mostly armed with th37mm gun and few with the new 50mm gun. I think the stock version is a blend of these two types in the H/A factors while the VM counters may separate the two types as different units for more tactical flexibility.
I think the PzIVs are depicted with the low velocity 75mm guns not the later 50mmL or 75mmL high velocity guns.
Rely on the 88mm ATG and your Stuka squadrons to blunt British tank thrusts.

Dog Soldier

[Volcano Man]

Well, dragonslayer2001 might be referring to the fact that the latest T41_Alt had all hard attack values reduced, but after checking, it seems I forgot to offset this with the new Quality Fire Modifier (which is intended to be used for these very small A quality units that are present in T41).

That was the goal: rather than boosting the HA value itself, rather, elegantly modifying the quality fire modifier of A quality units, then being more selective about who has that rating in the OOB (mostly the 88mm gun units only).

I will fix that in the next T41_Alt update which might be soon, since it is pretty easy to correct my mistake. :o

[dragonslayer2001]

Definitely let me know when this is done, as I would love to try it out.

thanks

ds

Well, dragonslayer2001 might be referring to the fact that the latest T41_Alt had all hard attack values reduced, but after checking, it seems I forgot to offset this with the new Quality Fire Modifier (which is intended to be used for these very small A quality units that are present in T41).

That was the goal: rather than boosting the HA value itself, rather, elegantly modifying the quality fire modifier of A quality units, then being more selective about who has that rating in the OOB (mostly the 88mm gun units only).

I will fix that in the next T41_Alt update which might be soon, since it is pretty easy to correct my mistake. :o