HPS Simulations, 1990-2013

[Compass Rose]

... but I just can't see setting up and running a forum as a very high hurdle, so I don't understand why they haven't done so.

I'm am guessing that setting up a forum wouldn't be the problem as much as maintaining one would be.

If a forum board has alot of activity, there can be alot of behind the scenes "work" that is required such has moderating and reviewing new threads/posts, addressing received messages via the "contact us" link, weeding out spammers and trouble makers, addressing new member questions that deal with them not being familiar with the forum controls/settings, reviewing new registered members, not to mention responding to questions, comments, and suggestions that are found within the forum boards.

To do it right, you have to have the resources to be able to respond to member's issues in a very timely manner. If you blow off your members or if your members feel as if they are being blown off or ignored, they will find other forum boards where they feel that they are treated better, and call that "home".

As small as JTS is, I don't see them having the desired resources in manpower to do such a thing.

In my case problem is not with releases time is with lack of info,
With an official forum customers can directly contact with guys that work in titles, can ask to them and viceversa (they can ask for help searching info in other languages for example or ask for voices in other languages, for feedback with community.

Other point is a place where find all info you need about titles and in more than one language.

But main point in official forum is to provide info to customers and search for impresions about future titles and even ask for help for them

If you don't mind me quoting an old saying "Loose Lips, Sink Ships".

JTS and John Tiller HPS has been very successful in what they do, for all of these years. If the wheel isn't broke, don't try to fix it.

Secrecy has been one of John Tiller's major assets! Where else could you find a game that took 10+ years to create and finalize, like SB:FWW and not be leaked publicly?

Keeping a tight lid on what is going on and trusting who they share information of their future projects with, is all part of their successful program.

How many times throughout the years have you seen different gaming companies going public with future releases and them being canceled for one reason or another? It is hard to upset your target market and have a overdue release if they don't know what is in the works and and what is not.

If you want to ask questions or talk about "what ifs" you can't find a better place than the Blitz. We have many very active members who frequent the forums boards on a daily basis, who are or have been in past projects and releases of John Tiller titles who are very knowledgeable about the different series out there. Just don't ask them what they are working on!

Also, as a last resort, HPS and JTS both have support email addresses that you could always voice your opinions and suggestions to.

Finally, JT's team does ask for public help over at the SDC and over on the Blitz however, as you can see very, very few guys are willing to take the time to help.

https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards...?tid=63561

https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards...?tid=63535

https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards...?tid=63297

https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards...?tid=63232

https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards...?tid=63117

http://hpssims.com.c7.previewyoursite.co...php?t=5338

http://hpssims.com.c7.previewyoursite.co...php?t=5352

http://hpssims.com.c7.previewyoursite.co...php?t=5337

http://hpssims.com.c7.previewyoursite.co...php?t=5326

If JTS/JT HPS is having such a hard time getting guys to help test the "small stuff" don't expect them to publicly advertise their need for help with the team testing projects (the hard stuff), as they do that privately.

[Tide1]

CR has it completely right. It happens over at Matrix from time to time. Games are announced and it takes years to get them working. I'm not criticizing just saying. It took near eight months or so to beta test Moscow'42 and no telling how long it took to get the real work done.
At Matrix you have to sign a NDA so you won't get people talking about the games unless they get the nod from above and I've seen relentless posts over there asking for info on the games.
With JTS you get a bunch of guys grinning at their monitors when they see a post asking what's next ? :) and no NDA's by the way :)

[76mm]

I'm am guessing that setting up a forum wouldn't be the problem as much as maintaining one would be.

If a forum board has alot of activity, there can be alot of behind the scenes "work" that is required such has moderating and reviewing new threads/posts, addressing received messages via the "contact us" link, weeding out spammers and trouble makers, addressing new member questions that deal with them not being familiar with the forum controls/settings, reviewing new registered members, not to mention responding to questions, comments, and suggestions that are found within the forum boards.

To do it right, you have to have the resources to be able to respond to member's issues in a very timely manner. If you blow off your members or if your members feel as if they are being blown off or ignored, they will find other forum boards where they feel that they are treated better, and call that "home".

Well I've never run a forum so you might be right, although given the level of activity on this board I don't think it would be much of a burden to maintain it. In any event, many game companies have players/volunteers take on most of the moderating duties.

As far as feeling blown off, I feel much more blown off by HPS' complete lack of a forum than if there are minor delays before responding, etc. Look at Matrix: I follow several games there, and often when looking at one game's forum, I notice another Matrix game that looks interesting, and buy it. The developers are frequently on the fora, many of them very much so, and they acknowledge issues, answer questions, etc. I know this takes some time, but for a indie game developer I think an hour or two on the forum per week is a very good investment of time. I feel pretty engaged with Matrix.

With HPS--completely disengaged...I bought one game (Tigers Unleashed) that I consider a complete debacle, at least when released (I've written the game off at this point). And the developer never responded--never, not once--to the many complaints on the random forum that about that game (gamesquad). I've been waiting for Aide-de-Camp 3 for years, don't even bother checking their website about that one anymore.

I avoided this forum for a long time, because it looked to be focused on ladders, tournaments, finding opponents, etc. Sorry for going on about this, but I just think it is very shortsighted of HPS, this being the 21st century and all.

[Strela]

76mm,

I am involved with JTS (not HPS) and am here on almost a daily basis. If you have any specific questions I will assist where I can.

What I will say is that we do monitor the various forums and have our spies out who let us know if we have missed anything :) We do follow all the threads and changes have been made to the code to reflect players suggestions and wishes.

As far as letting you know what's coming next - it's a very deliberate decision not to do that. Why, you ask? Because every publically released game is done by a part time developer. The only games John Tiller does himself are usually classified and released to the military. All the games you see that are supported by these forums are done by part time hobbyists. These hobbyists have real lives, real jobs and a limited amount of time they can allocate to game design. Ultimately that means games can take anywhere from 18 months to 10 years to release! By not announcing what we are working on prevents the hype getting out of control.

John Tiller had one experience where he 'pre-announced' a new series (Panzer Battles) back in 2009 by putting it up on his website. The game was almost complete and just needed maybe 3 - 6 months more work and it was expected to be released pretty quickly. Post the announcement the designer went on sabbatical and shelved the game due to a lack of time. As a result of the pre-announcement, John and Rich field almost daily requests for Panzer Battles. Now lets be clear, that title (and series) is not dead, but it requires either the original designer to return or another to pick the project up (and subsequently delay whatever they were working on).

What I will say is that there are a heap of titles being worked on covering every game series John has released - what we don't have is a clear schedule (or demand) of dates to release titles on.

Finally, I think many people have missed a very significant development of late. John Tiller has released Modern Air Power (MAP) for tablets including Android, iPad and Kindle. John has a very robust engine that works across all his game series - if he can do it for MAP, I expect we will see it for some if not the whole range of his game series. For more info go to the official John Tiller Software site.

So JTS is not dead, just driven by folks who put all their time into creating games for you guys (and not enough time playing them!!!).

David

[Xaver]

And a little thing... if the guy that is working in PzB take an indefinite leave why not say it in the JT web??? you know, to at least made people interested on title dont think in iluminati or mason conspiracies and know that title release depends of external factors.

True is that we are in XXI century and info is all, you say JT is working in titles for all series, nice, but at least add some extra info is not bad like if EAW serie is going to cover wars of liberation in South America or is going use the engine as base for a new spin off serie (Colonial wars in XIX), if PzC is going to have a son called Pacific Campaigns and things like this... add some words about plans and future titles is not bad and i dont know any company that suffer sudden death to upload a few screenshoots hehehe, if i dont remember bad MC and EAW are the series that have more time with no new titles.

Doing some minecraft in forums i know for example that maybe JT is working in a XVIII serie (he ask 2-3 years ago to retire a mod for 1776 based in Prague battle???) and things like this i dont know why is not good notice it to interest people.

I find the point in dont say nothing about future titles or series but i see the negative point to because i plan my buys (not only games, i recently buy 3 books that means 2 JT titles) and in this moment i reserve more for titles i have info and screenshoots about them even with a open release date over ninja release titles.

[76mm]

David, for the record, you've provided great support for Moscow 42, although I haven't been around long enough to know if other PzC developers are as helpful (or even if there are other PzC developers).

Also, I understand the issues about pre-announcing games/titles, that's not something I've expressed concern about, although sometimes it can be a little frustrating, like when I bought Moscow 41 about a month before Moscow 42 came out. But no worries, I'll get around to playing both of them at some point...

[DaveK]

Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but I just learned a valuable lesson: don't post a provocative posting a few days before you're set to enjoy four+ months in places without reliable internet access (and certainly no laptop games, i.e. I just had no reason to check back here until now).

So, consider me probably chastened and embarrassed for leaving everyone hanging.

That said... sheesh, really?

"DaveK's posts over the last few years show he is displeased. I thought this was a plea from him to leave the community."

You're dang right I'm displeased. I want HPS to publish games that I can then buy and play. Ummm, who here doesn't?

My post, even in isolation, wasn't trolling: I felt, and still feel now that we're in 2014, that I made an accurate question/observation. A gaming company that's published *two* games in two years can be considered, in good faith, quite dead. Particularly when this same company once published dozens of games on a regular, consistent basis. (Games I purchased, probably 80% of the HPS catalog... what, a customer can't be unhappy?).

Yes, I've criticized HPS in the past for what I feel is an unfortunately dated approach to computer wargaming that dates back to the Talonsoft days. But that's a critique of the software, not a complaint, and certainly not meant as an insult to those here who still play the games (as I do-- am I insulting myself? ). I don't find it outrageous-- nor do I find myself alone, even here-- to suggest that a series of computer games that haven't fundamentally changed in design since 1995 (!) would benefit greatly from significant structural changes. This isn't similar to dusting off our old Avalon Hill boxes and playing a classic game on the card table-- computer processing, graphics, and user interfaces have evolved just a wee bit for the better in the meantime. Given the wargames we all buy now from the likes of Matrix, Battlefront, Paradox, Ageod and the rest, it's inescapable that with HPS (and, yes, JTS) we're all in love with a dinosaur.

But that's neither here nor there; that's a separate critique I've made before in these parts (as Dog Soldier helpfully reminded everyone). It's neither here nor there because I'd still buy a new dinosaur today... if only one was published.

Which they aren't. Not by HPS, anyway.

My bottom line is that I've spent years playing these games because I love them, and I love the unique settings of some titles (titles that covered battles/campaigns no one else has).

But I can't love games that aren't published. And companies that don't publish don't make money, which means they don't publish more games, nor do they improve and evolve them to modern quality and relevance to the market (which, contrary to the strongly held opinions around these parts, doesn't just consist of old fart grognards like us ).

Anyway... maybe there isn't a conversation to be had here, maybe I'm just ranting with no value added. I made my peace, I won't complain about this issue ever again here at the Blitz. (Nor will ever again post and leave, heh ).

But please HPS, if you're reading... hurry up and please give us something this year, okay? Pretty please?

No, I will not expel some one unless they break the club rules. And such removals are done when the officer staff are in agreement. I do not remove people on a whim.

However, if someone thinks one of the biggest game companies at the blitz in terms of blitz members playing their games is dead, then I will ask as they are obviously leaving if they want their hat.

Nobody is forced to stay at the blitz who thinks the blitz or the games supported here are irrelevant to them. I have had people who have quit the hobby ask to be removed from the blitz. Most just go inactive status.

DaveK's posts over the last few years show he is displeased. I thought this was a plea from him to leave the community.

Bottom line is both JTS and HPS are cottage industries supported by many more volunteers than actual people who share in the financial side of the companies. Even if one or both of the companies go away, something will replace them. The game series they created will go on.

But I see no evidence of any of that happening from my POV in the near future.

People in the boat come and go, but the games just keep paddling on.

Dog Soldier

[DaveK]

BTW... just finished reading the Panzer Battles thread. NOW I'm doing a happy dance.

[timshin42]

A very strange thread indeed! Can't find anywhere where anybody got "threatened". Must be somebody's English language problem. Much ado about nothing!

[Liebchen]

I avoided this forum for a long time, because it looked to be focused on ladders, tournaments, finding opponents, etc.

Well, I'm sorry that you avoided the Blitz forums for this reason because, while these types of post are the bread and butter of the MB, there has always been a healthy dose of discussion regarding game theory, game development, historical aspects, etc.