Question about Bridges and Boats

[Pewpewchewchew]

Hi all,

After purchasing Market Garden I've run into some difficulties with these bridging units and their boat equivalents. When playing the Nijimegen both heavy bridges over one of the canals leading up to the town were blown and for the rest of the scenario I just couldn't do much else with any of the reinforcements I had.

Around Nijimegen my paratroops were able to secure just about everything in 20 of the 33 turns allotted. Now the 30th Corps did arrive with two engineer units one bridging one with boats. For the 10 sum turns the bridge unit had it just simply never changed from bridge ops to has bridge.

If I'm not mistaken the following in the parameters tells me the probability of a bridge being finished.

Bridge Values:
Allied Bridge Value: 30% Axis Bridge Value: 30%
Allied Pontoon Value: 0 Axis Pontoon Value: 15
Light Bridge Strength: 8 Medium Bridge Strength: 12 Heavy Bridge Strength: 16
Wired Bridge Side: Allied Sm Bridge Wired Prob: 80% Lg Bridge Wired Prob: 0%


So according to this each turn my bridging unit has about a 30% chance to finish it's project correct? Did I just get really unlucky? In addition what are these bridge strength values?

Another issue was how the heck I get these engineers with boats to actually ferry units. In the manual under Water Hex Ferrying it goes on all about the requirements but not actually how to start this action. My understanding of this action is that the "Has Boats" group has to be next to the water hex with it's full amount of action points left, then it moves into the water hex. Once the engineer unit is in the water other units can sort of shift through it's hex one at a time. Could somebody list the exact input sets to get these boats into the water?

[Compass Rose]

Congratulations on the new title!

[Mr Grumpy]

Around Nijimegen my paratroops were able to secure just about everything in 20 of the 33 turns allotted. Now the 30th Corps did arrive with two engineer units one bridging one with boats. For the 10 sum turns the bridge unit had it just simply never changed from bridge ops to has bridge.

If I'm not mistaken the following in the parameters tells me the probability of a bridge being finished.

Bridge Values:
Allied Bridge Value: 30% Axis Bridge Value: 30%
Allied Pontoon Value: 0 Axis Pontoon Value: 15
Light Bridge Strength: 8 Medium Bridge Strength: 12 Heavy Bridge Strength: 16
Wired Bridge Side: Allied Sm Bridge Wired Prob: 80% Lg Bridge Wired Prob: 0%


So according to this each turn my bridging unit has about a 30% chance to finish it's project correct? Did I just get really unlucky? In addition what are these bridge strength values?

I should say up front that since changing my PC I don't have MG44 on my HD so I am relying on my ageing memory here!

First question, were you trying to bridge a river hexside (i.e. along the hex spine) or a full hex river? With the values above the Allied pontoon value is set at 0% so you had no chance of creating a bridge over a full hex river, however as you said you had a 30% chance of creating a bridge over a hexside river and if that was the case you were unlucky.

The bridge strength values are used when engineers "attack" a bridge with the intention of damaging it, they can only do this when the "wired bridge" rule is not being used, from memory I think most if not all MG scenarios use the wired bridge rule to prevent the Germans from simply blowing every bridge on the map.

Another issue was how the heck I get these engineers with boats to actually ferry units. In the manual under Water Hex Ferrying it goes on all about the requirements but not actually how to start this action. My understanding of this action is that the "Has Boats" group has to be next to the water hex with it's full amount of action points left, then it moves into the water hex. Once the engineer unit is in the water other units can sort of shift through it's hex one at a time. Could somebody list the exact input sets to get these boats into the water?

From memory again I believe you place the engineers into "on foot" mode (if motorised) and then in travel mode and move out into the river hex (again I assume we are talking about a full hex river), you then place your unit to be moved in "on foot" (if motorised) and travel mode and you can move onto the river hex with the boat engineers in it, then on the next move you can move the unit one more hex in T mode to the far bank.

I also believe both the engineers and units to be ferried have to be in good order i.e. undisrupted and also motorised HQ's cannot be placed "on foot" and hence cannot be ferried across in this manner.

TRy that and see if my memory is correct or not?

[Ricky B]

Okay, I will have to check out the bridge building, but for full hex rivers, it takes a set number of turns before the percentage check begins. From memory, and looking at the PDT, the Allies can't build a full hex bridge (hence the 0% Pontoon for them, but let me check I have the numbers right).

To ferry a unit in boats across the river, the boat engineer stays on shore not moving at all. The unit to move across the river must start there also, without vehicles, and either start or go into travel mode. It may then move into the river one hex, and continue doing so until it exits the river.

Rick

[Mr Grumpy]

Okay, I will have to check out the bridge building, but for full hex rivers, it takes a set number of turns before the percentage check begins. From memory, and looking at the PDT, the Allies can't build a full hex bridge (hence the 0% Pontoon for them, but let me check I have the numbers right).

Yes I think you are correct, for some reason I have 10 moves in my memory before the pontoon value kicks in.

To ferry a unit in boats across the river, the boat engineer stays on shore not moving at all. The unit to move across the river must start there also, without vehicles, and either start or go into travel mode. It may then move into the river one hex, and continue doing so until it exits the river.

Rick

Ah, almost right, I just got the boat engineer bit wrong.

[Ricky B]

Foul covered the bridge strength, I see, thanks!

Okay, I looked at the Nijmegan scenario, and the canal, and I see that you must be talking about the hexside canal south and west of the city, rather than the Waal River, a full hex river, which is the one I thought you meant. I would say that if you tried for 10 turns and didn't succeed it was bad luck, not impossibly bad but that is worse than I would have expected.

It is a 30% basic chance of success, but there are things that tweak the chance, such as if the bridge engineer is a company rather than battalion, I think, or the overall strength maybe. Also, if disrupted, the engineer will never succeed but I am guessing that isn't the issue here. Quality has an impact. Anyway, I stepped through the scenario and saw the bridge engineer, it is a battalion, C quality, so 30% should apply.

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I just gave things a try and was able to get a bridge up, but it did take at least 6 turns, I lost count but mainly wanted to make sure it would work. So it will, again, I would guess you have bad luck.

Rick