Back at It! -- ''no flags game''

Mad Baron · 06-28-2009, 10:56 AM,

Well, I found you have to put at least 1 flag in a game you make yourself, or the AI will add them later, randomly. So I have a new map with 1 small flag for each side, back at a rear-most position.

The idea being, these flags are worth very few points, and are deep in enemy territory...so it is nearly a ''no flags'' game. Other previous input recommended no turn limits--so I made it 99+ turns, have established units for each side (with recommendation to make it a mirror game), and somebody mentioned having advanced setup zones for ambushes. And I have all this.

~~and I suppose such a map can either be used for a QB (and you can buy whatever is allowed by the players), or as a Scenario (and you go with it as-is)~~

The central idea for this map/game is a ME, and the major points should come from finding and throttling your opponent's units. Each side has a small flag that probably needs some defense, but that defense can be a sort of reserve unit, that might later be deployed in any heavy fighting.

What each side has now, in a nutshell (testing stage):
1 Inf/Rifle Battalion
6 armored cars
6 flamethrowers
2 anti-tank teams
2 elite snipers
2 immobile flak units
2 indep. arty spotters
1 dive-bomber
(about 2400 pts. each--give or take a little)

Am about to test this against the AI. But does anybody see any flaws or other recommendations?

Joonny · 06-29-2009, 07:54 PM,

Good Work MB.

Don't think it will work well against the AI however, it will still probably try and go straight for your flag.

Mad Baron · 06-30-2009, 04:50 AM,

Yeah, still flaws in this. The AI is zero challenge. Enemy units seem distracted even by the flag in their own rear. And after just 10 turns, the enemy is all but routed. (At least both sides' air showed up.)

Map is too small for each side to have a battalion, too. There is no way to really do any clever maneuvering.

Back to the drawing board. :conf: I'd still like to get something decent as an ME with no flags. Don't really like ME's much anymore; they just become the mad run to the flags...then it's all just a Probe battle.....:(

Joonny · 06-30-2009, 09:10 AM,

I think it will still work well H2H.

It would also work with a bigger map if both forces have a large force, as the 100pts of flags will pail in significance to the casualty points.

I happen to like large forces on a small map, do you wish to try this current version out H2H? I'll be willing to PBEM it, and if you're free this weekend we could TCP/IP it too.

Mad Baron · 06-30-2009, 09:27 AM,

I think you're right, Joonny. H2H might still be a fun challenge, just with what it is now. Want to try it? Mirrored?, not towards Ladder--or--towards Ladder, or whatever?

No room to run away on this map...and the little flags won't count for much after the dust and blood settles!~haha

I will give it a shot as PBEM! Let me know!

[email protected] (better than Yahoo address)

cheers

Ratzki · 06-30-2009, 02:47 PM,

I have not been following the discussions here closely, but it sounds like you want to have the AI do some attacking yet not have a game based on flags. Not going to happen, at least not simply. Here might be a solution.
Make your map, and evaluate what you want the AI to do. It "will" attack and it "will" use some tactics but you will have to be creative and almost script the battle. Give the players some objective(s) to reach for them to win the game, then you have to place little flags at locations that will be beneficial for the AI to get in order to attack well. You will also have to play with the AI's units, as far as their placement in order that it performs as best as it can. I sometimes think that it is not the AI's ability to attack but it's inability to move that does the AI in. If you can get the AI into locations where it gets an advantage(like any player would do) and then present the enemy (the player) moving towards the objectives outlined in the briefing so the the AI gets to spot some targets, it will fight quite well, but this will need lots of tweeking. My "Road to the Prutt" scenario is one that is against the AI which is on the defence. The playtests at the Proving Grounds all said that they had a bear of a time with the AI with most victories not being secured till the last turn or two. I really had to watch where the flags were placed in order to get the AI to fight hard, I have not made an AI attack but have chatted with Mad Russian and played a few scenarios where the AI attacks, and attacks well.