Major Dick Winters discussion.

[Copper]

While surfing I came across this website -

http://www.majordickwinters.com/

In it they are calling for Major Dick Winters (ret) to have his Distinguished Service Cross upgraded to a Congressional Medal of Honor. An online petition has been set up with over 16 thousand people signing it.

Sign it here - http://www.petitiononline.com/Winters/petition.html

My question is in your opinion should he get it upgraded or has this whole affair been pushed through due to the exposure he has received following the Band of Brothers HBO series and book of the same name by Stephen Ambrose.

There is no doubt he is an exceptional man and comes through as a sterling example of a 'leader' - Im just interested on your views on this.

Bootie

PS - I signed the petition. IMO anyone who went through what he and his men went through deserve it.

[Steel God]

I am a big fan of Dick Winters, more so after reading Band of Brothers (and I dislike Ambrose as an historian). But in my opinion the actions at Brecort Manor do not warrant the Medal of Honor because his actions did not meet the criteria:

"for conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of life, above and beyond the call of duty, in actual combat against an armed enemy force."

Meaning Dick Winters was no more conspicious at Brecort than any other participant, and none of his actions placed him at greater risk than anyone else involved. The fact that he commanded there is acknowledged by the DSC as opposed to the awards given to others, but MoH status, I'd have trouble swallowing myself.

Paul

PS: A bit of trivia, the medal is not really called the Congressional Medal of Honor. It is the Medal of Honor. It is usually awarded by the President on behalf of the Congress, and that's why it's ended up being caled the CMH.

[Mike Abberton]

Particularly as someone who has never served in the armed forces, I would not begrudge any service member, especially one who served in combat, his just and due rewards, I can't help but feal that this petition has benefitted greatly from his exposure in the Band of Brothers mini-series. In fact, the middle section of the petition reads like a episode listing from the mini-series.

A question for consideration: In most Medal of Honor cases I have read about, the recipient is being rewarded for his actions as an individual, not really for being a capable and efficient leader of others. Does Major Winters have such an event in his service history?

The Brecourt Manor action certainly seems like a well-planned, well-executed assault on a defended position, but it was hardly a one-man operation. From the mini-series, I would say the most likely example of individual heroism would be when he leads the company in an attack from a embankment. In the episode (ep. 4 maybe), Major Winters jumps up first and launches forward, but the company hesitates. For a few moments, Winters is alone running across the field.

Anyway, I'll be interested to hear what you all think.

Mike

[Copper]

Yeah the episode was called 'Crossroads', this was the last time he fired his weapon in combat when they caught the SS in the open. During Bastogne he did not fire a shot as he had been promoted to XO at the time.

Interestingly enough in an article by Winters he slated the mini-series for portraying him having flashbacks regarding the 'young' German soldier who smiled at him just before he died under a couple of Winters bullets. He said that yes the German soldier did smile just before he was shot but that he wasnt young and the flashbacks were thought up by the producer.

Bootie

[Weasel]

You may want to read David Webster's book "Parachute Infantry", he gives some other views to the leadership of Easy Company, and they are not flattering. David Webster was the soldier who was wounded by shrapnel at the crossroads and said "I can't believe I said "they got me"". He went by the name WEB.

So no, I don't think it should be upgraded. As said, being a capable leader does not warrent the MOH. Especially if you compare his exploits to those of Audey Murphy for example. Night and day.

[Don Fox]

There is often slim distinction between a MOH and DSC, in terms of the underlying actions that result in the recognition achieved. I don't agree with the attempt to "upgrade" Winter's award; there are hundred of other instances where you could argue that a MOH could have been awarded instead. His is just one of many. The DSC stands on its own as an award that any veteran should be extremely proud of (they are not easy to come by).

[Copper]

Should we second guess the Officers that were there just because of a TV series? I would say no. I have no doubt he was a very brave man but I dont think he should be given an award that was not considered he warranted at the time.

Do it even once and you have taken the first step to degrading the MOH in my opinion. An interesting discussion on this was held over at WW2IC some time ago:

http://www.ww2incolor.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1542

[Copper]

Nice post Geordie and interesting POV's. I was wondering though. As the 101st were only allowed to award 1 MOH and some other guy got it what did he do to place him above Winters int he pecking order?

Bootie

[Steel God]

I was wondering though. As the 101st were only allowed to award 1 MOH and some other guy got it what did he do to place him above Winters int he pecking order?

Huh? Where did the idea that the 101st could only issue one MOH come from?

Paul

[Copper]

I read it somewhere else but found this extract from the aforementioned website - it was part of a letter to Colin Powell regarding the upgrade to Winters DSC. Im certain i came across it somewhere else on the net too but Im damned if I can find it again.

No doubt you are also aware that General Taylor said there would only be ONE for the 0-Day action, and that medal went to LTC Cole who led a heroic bayonet charge. This resulted in Major Winters receiving the DSC instead of the MOH, which he probably earned three times at Normandy, Holland, and Bastogne.

Bootie