Perceptions: Zones of Control

[CptCav]

If I understand you correctly CptCav, you think a more fluid ZOC is required in all PzC titles since the attackers are too weak to make much headway under the default ZOC rules?

At what point did you read that I said that the attackers are too weak? You should not put words into someone's post that are not there. :mad: However, I will say that your comment does applies to the MC Fulda Gap and NGP campaign scenarios. ;)

I believe that with the adjustment of the ZOC rules, which will not happen, it would be necessary to balance the scenarios with the understanding of how the ZOC change will impact them. I, also, believe that defensive fires should get a bonus. The more dug in a unit is the bigger defensive fire bonus it should get (pre-registered fires, zones of fire designated, the better accuracy of non-moving fires, etc.)

Regards,
CptCav

[Dog Soldier]

CapCav wrote:

At what point did you read that I said that the attackers are too weak? You should not put words into someone's post that are not there. Mad However, I will say that your comment does applies to the MC Fulda Gap and NGP campaign scenarios. Wink

In an earlier post on this thread CapCav said:

However, I do agree that it should impact movement or supplies. But, when you are talking about a km or a mile area, I find it difficult to believe that fire alone can stop movement except in the few exceptable situations (i.e. restricted terrain). That is why in my Better Dead than Red scenario, ZOCs only slow down movement through the hex (using up all of a units movement points to move from ZOC to ZOC). Although, the ZOCs still prevent supplies, but I cannot change that.

These seem like your words to me. :rolleyes:

You seem (to me) to be holding out that fluid ZOC's are the only way to do things...by example of your Better Dead than Red scenario.

I will defer to you and others in the MC series. I do not have any of the games in that series, so I can not properly judge them.

For Dave68124,
Can an M-1 just brush by soviet infantry armed with AT rocket systems? I tend to think M-1's as impressive as they are, are not invulnerable. I guess even in MC the need for infantry support for tanks is still the same as it was in WW2. But I digress.

I have played games inside and outside the PzC series for many years with all forms of ZOC, from locking to fluid on the spectrum. I can play in any of these environments.

The wording of the poll suggests a blanket approach to ZOC. That is what I have taken issue with. ZOC, like many other characteristics in a game or designed scenario in the PzC series is a matter of the situation, location, (Normandy vs Western Desert vs. City of Stalingrad) and time during the war. Later in the war, say 1944, infiltration tactics could have disastrous results against an organized defense because of advances weapons compared to 1940 or 1941.

If you are going to press for modification of ZOC, how do you account for the training and possible alert status of each individual unit? The longer a unit occupies a certain piece of ground really translates into higher defensive capabilities. In that case how can the aggressor ever get past the border at the beginning of a conflict? The Bar Lev line fell in less than day. The Israeli army occupied that line for years, so it should have had very high defensive capabilities. My point...things are not always what they seem. War is a situation where anything can happen.

ZOC theory, as presented in PzC, also implies that unit does not really occupy the hex where the counter (location marker) is presented on the map. The unit could actually be in any of the six adjoining hexes, (FOW game theory). Thus the converse could be true. The attacker could be in any of seven hexes. The lines are all tangled....

ZOC's in operational games stop a unit because the unit does not know where the enemy really is. Perhaps with contact the enemy positions become more clear. Perhaps with contact the situation becomes very confused and the attacking units really know less than it thinks it does.

I think the real strength of the PzC system is that the ZOC can be modified. Esp. in a design your own scenario like your Better Dead than Red scenario. If the scenario designer wants a feel of a fluid battle with infiltration by the attacker, then he can set the ZOC in the pdt for that scenario to simulate that situation.

If the designer wants the front to be a little more solid, then he can use the default settings for ZOC.

And for a classic board game feel, use locking ZOC.

Dog Soldier