Thoughts on Uranus SS variant?

[TET2]

[Aolain]

Well, playing the Russian in the SS to the Rescue campaign with Hadge, I have been forced to conced the game even before the SS came into the picture:hissy:

Hadge attacked my forces from the beginning of the game. The real power of this tactic was that it completely threw me off track. Here you are expecting to advance against the perficious Hitlerites and your opponent extracts his panzer divisions from the city and has at you with a vengance!!

My northern flank, just north of Stalingrad was pierced and decimated, with elements of my army isolated against the Don. To the south, I was given a bloody nose, and my forces just south of the city were, to put it mildly, cut to ribbons.

With that said, The Germans can do a thing or two in this campaign. I think that if this were the standard senario I might have soldiered on, knowing there was very little in the German arsenal. But with the SS boys just off stage, I knew I would most likely never even complete a encirclement.

Over all and exellent (if abreviated) campaign against a determined, agressive, and capable opponent.

[HirooOnoda]

Well, playing the Russian in the SS to the Rescue campaign with Hadge, I have been forced to conced the game even before the SS came into the picture:hissy:

Hadge attacked my forces from the beginning of the game. The real power of this tactic was that it completely threw me off track. Here you are expecting to advance against the perficious Hitlerites and your opponent extracts his panzer divisions from the city and has at you with a vengance!!

Excellent! I love it when something like that happens.

Do you think, now that you've seen it, that there is a counter to this German strategy or something that needs to be address to correct an imbalance?

[Sgt Fury]

The Axis side in my team game brought up the panzers and took out the "Iron Div (II)" which starts in the bend of the river, basically trapped with only ferries for escape. Possible strategies for dealing with this would have to be implemented by the Russians on turn 1: start building a poontoon bridge or 2, withdraw or reinforce.

In the actual battle the Germans had tried to eliminate the Iron Division's bridgehead on multiple occasions but had been unable to do so. In the game it seems too easy to do so. I think the Iron division front line should be pillboxes with bunkers in depth (like the Germans). Perhaps upping the Iron Division's morale to B from C would be good too (though even more reason to eliminate them then) but might be unbalancing the other way.

By the way, it is slightly amusing that the unit designation is "Iron Division" (version 2) :-)


Fury

[Hadge]

Having just buggered up the Ruski's ambitions in the Stalingrad area, I have to agree that the solution to the Iron Divisions situation would be to put them in Pillboxes - ( I all but destroyed them using one German ID ). I think increasing morale to B would give them too much power in the attack when the German finally decides to retreat.

As for a counter to the aggresive German defender :smg: - we have just kicked off a return match with me as the Ruskis and Aolain as the Facists, so I would rather keep my own counsel for the moment :cool: if thats OK with u'all

We are only at turn 2 at the moment, but I can drop in the odd Sitrep if it would amuse our listeners

Cheers

Chris

[von Waldenburg]

I dont see the destruction of the Iron div as easy as some of you say because there's a main road and 2 guards divs to the north that could fall in the german rear if the iron div pulls back and acts as a decoy. Also tanks and cavalry could fairly easyly arrive at the scene...

[Scar]

I don't see an advance on the "Iron Division" as a threat at all. While my German opponent did not try this tactic, I fail to see how the German 384th Inf Div could possiblly destroy the division without allowing itself to be pulled forward so far that it will never get to the pocket. In addition, 4 Gd Rifle can be there with a Rgt or so in a day, and more if needed via the northern ferry.

I have only played one game as German (turn 70+) and one as Soviet (turn 35+), and my opponent did not try this tactic, nor did I as the Germans. I can say I barely escaped with the three divisions of XI korps. If the Germans get aggressive with this division the Soviets should be pleased as the 384, 44 and 376 Inf Divs are units that can escape the Don Fronts short encirclement and 5 Tank's larger one. If the Germans get overly aggressive with this division, the Russians should be able to make them pay. Finally, is it a good trade for the Russians to lose the Iron Div in trade for the Germans loss of the 384th? I would suspect so.

SCAR

[Ricky B]

As the one who attacked the Iron Div in the game against Fury, I will give some more information as to what happened. First Tobias and I are playing this blind about the Soviet strength/positioning and so we weren't sure where their weak points were or the threats would come from. We also agreed to let the pocket form, which to us has meant no retreating out of the pocket and no major effort to pull the panzers out of Stalingrad to smash the T34s in the main Soviet attacks. So I, playing the 6th Army, kept the panzer divisions in the city except for slowly pulling out and sending west small portions of the panzers, mainly part of one division about midday on the first day of the game, then slowly making it all three by early on the third day.

The attack on the Iron Div was not heavily support by the panzers - it was mainly the recon units and no more than a couple of other tank units, almost all of which went low fuel before the attack and so played only a minor role. Extra infantry in the area and I believe a Stug unit from the VIII Korps, along with some other spare mobile AA units and artillery moved up and assisted the attack, which destroyed the defenders as planned, while also maintaining garrisons in the fortifications in case of later need.

Along the rest of the western end of the German line, there was no mass rush to the rest. We have carried out a fighting withdrawal. This has led to the destruction in combat of the westernmost German division, only a small number of infantry units surviving unfortunately. But not due to encirclement except the small direct ones by units trapping a single stack. The other two divisions are basically back across the Don or in the bridgehead that has now formed around Kalach, which is the western end of the line now.

As you say Scar, not a good trade as such, but the loss of the western division has nothing to do with the attack on the Iron Div. I think we have tried to fight as the 6th Army did historically - no mass move out of the city but a slow transfer, probably a little faster than happened historically. The 6th Army did move a panzer division west to attack the flank of the Soviet penetration to the west but it was too late and really didn't move far enough, primarily because the Soviets were already swamping everything to the south by then anyway.

All in all, it has made for a fun battle so far, I think for both sides.

Rick