New here! and want game (of MBT)

[PYROS]

I will do everyone a favor and not discuss this anymore.

Hi Grumber,

I don't think that there is a single SP-gamer that would not be interested to read carefully your very nice analysis over the "scout" issue.

At least, I have enjoyed reading it and I partially agree with some of your points.

Anyway, despite your good will effort I fear that concerning SP CAMO variants, the scouts are units with small size and better experience (and that's all; one of the most important skills of a scout is to be able to move undetected and this is where the small size fits the role).


cheers,
Pyros

p.s Concerning your chat with Oldrocky, I need to tell you that Brett is one of the most skillful strategists, (that I had the honor to play), so don't miss the chance to play some quality games against him.

[Narwan]

I'm sorry to say it's number three.

Number one can be easily tested and you'll see that there is absolutely no difference in spotting ability in a 4 man scout team and a 4 men lmg team with the same stats (NB I tested this for WinSPWW2, not both games but both use the same base code). Whether the bonus is indirect or direct, a field test should show a difference and it doesn't.

Number 2 is a bit more vague, but it would seem to indicate you think it may be a design bug. It isn't. Not having a scouting bonus is an intentional part of the game design and completely logic. The model of the game was not ruined nor was 'the' structure of it destroyed. On the contrary; like all the rest of the work done gradually over the years the game is improved by it. You're proof of it yourself. In this very same thread (and others before) you have talked about the use of recon in the games and how effective it can be when properly used. And how you did use them effectively yourself. Now how can this aspect be 'broken' if you've not even noticed this in your gaming but even appear to excel in the use of this very same aspect? Seems very hard to renconcile these to elements. I put it that the CAMO guys got it 'right' (but as always, this still is a game under development so as any element it might be improved upon further in the future).

As to the logic of it, there's no contradiction with your logic claims. Spotting is as vital for any soldier on the front line as it is for scouts. What is special about scouts is that they are commonly leading the way. But any soldier who happens to be the point man will be looking out carefully. How carefully and how well depends on training. A 70 experience soldier will be much better than a 60 experience one. If certain soldiers get special training as scouts this is reflected in the game as an experience (and usually also morale) bonus. Improved exprience gives you better spotting so that seems right. It also gives you less chance of being spotted so that seems right too. A bonus of 3 to 5 points seems right to me.
Now if you have expert scouts you're talking about elite troops, not the run of the mill scout units. These have huge bonus'. However, just about every elite soldier will know about these 'scout skills', learning them is a survival trait for every soldier in the field. And at a certain point it levels off, there's not that much more to learn and know about scouting (besides SF style operations). And many non-scout soldiers learn most if not all of it in the field too. They spot and search as well as the freshly flown in recon team who've yet to see action. In other words, one group (a infantry fire team) is at exprience 75 through basic training and in-field experience (70 + 5), the other group (a scout team) is also at experience 75 but through basic training and some additional scout training (also 70 + 5). Both groups got there a different way but both are just as good at it, even though one is a regular fire team and one a scout team.
There is no rationale for an additional scout bonus in the games.

Narwan

[Alby]

Notice some scout unit formations in SPWW2 are given experience (+) modifiers , which could possibly help them spot things quicker.
Kind of like the 'special' flags in WAW for Recon ,Elite, Second line.....etc etc.

"Experience and Morale modifiers - leave at 0 and the formation (and any sub formation) units when bought will use the default experience and morale and hence costs (depending on whether national characteristics is on or off in the game preferences). Otherwise - positive numbers increase experience (training) levels and cost, while negative numbers will reduce these, and purchase cost."

For instance all German Scouts it seems recieve an experience multiplier, even if not in an "elite" formation, as do USA ones, Most Russian ones do not however.
Just a few examples, I did not look too hard or for very long.

[Narwan]

Hi Alby,
experience is an important factor is spotting ability. So that experience bonus for scouts effectively IS the spotting bonus for being a scout. If you would also have a general scout bonus you'd be duplicating what's already there. If and when I have the time, I might set something up to test how the difference in experience relates to spotting ability.

Narwan

[retired from gaming]

[jadpanther]

Hey Cezrpak,

That's an easy one........it hides you actual numbers and loacations.

Jad

[retired from gaming]

Hey Cezrpak,

That's an easy one........it hides you actual numbers and loacations.

Jad

Jad,
I know it was the goal, but I just cant see how it could be done (in the game, i mean).
IMO only result you get is to SHOW where that platoon is, nothing else.

[Vesku]

Hey Cezrpak,

That's an easy one........it hides you actual numbers and loacations.

Jad

Jad,
I know it was the goal, but I just cant see how it could be done (in the game, i mean).
IMO only result you get is to SHOW where that platoon is, nothing else.

It is to trick opponent to think that there is much more forces there than there actually is and thus fooling him to send his reserves into wrong part of the field.

[Grumbler]

Exactly. If your have fast tanks, you can shoot, scoot and shoot again. On the replay, you opponent sees tanks shooting and then what you have left out for him to see and he can think you are strong where you are not. Of course, it's all a gamble. He could have an unspotted scout looking over your shoulder laughing at your antics.