Maps of Budapest Region

[Scharlemanje]

Hi,

New to the forum but CS player for years. Here is my map question:
I'm working on a historical LCG about Operation Konrad, the 1945 offensive to save Budapest and the mapping is horrible much work if i build all the region hex by hex using Hungarian Topo what i'm actually doing. And i prefer the terrain to be as highly detailed as possible. After all, i'm making good progress and hope to finish the Konrad I Scenarios in near future, but i was wondering if there are any maps for the Budapest region available (some kind of talonsoft or Philip S. Baker's master map would be the best)

Cheers to all ya EF and WF veterans

[Engelbrekt]

http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/digkonyv/topo/3felmeres.htm

Click on Budapest and a larger map will appear.

/Engelbrekt

[Scharlemanje]

Thanks for the link. The sheets are 1:75 000 scale (thats 1cm = 750m), Is this the right size to use it for east front maps? Shouldnt it be 1:25 000 or so? Which scale do you designers usually prefer?

[Scharlemanje]

Deleted double post

[Jason Petho]

Good day

The maps available at the above link appear to be 1:200,000 and originally published in 1910. Considering these were originally done by hand, one could conclude that the series was actually started in the late 1890's. This leaves the integrity and accuracy of the data in question.

Although nice to look at, the map set would serve little purpose for a Campaign Series scale map, with the exception of general reference and place name guidance. Keep in mind that place names frequently changed during the last couple of centuries as ownership changed hands.

Ideally, 1:50,000 maps are best for Campaign Series as they provide the basic generalization required considering the limited abilities within the Campaign Series map engine. 1:25,000 are great to have if you can acquire them, but unless you are skilled at generalization, I would steer clear of them as they provide too much information.

Finding 1:50,000 or 1:25,000 online, especially of the area and time period one needs, is a rarity. Your best to bite the bullet, contact a national library (National Library of Scotland, Library of Congress, etc) and pay the cash to get the area coverage you need.

There are a number of 1:100,000 map series available circa WW2, even online, which could serve a purpose if you understand how to interpret generalization between map scales.

Hope that helps
Take care and good luck
Jason Petho

[Scharlemanje]

Well i took austro-hungarian military maps 1:200000 and resized them, doubling their size. The result is accurate enough for ef map editor, i already have the Vertes Mountains finished for EF (Tatabanya-Tarjan-Zsambek Region) and by using hexgrid overlay the result is 100% accurate. I dont want to order the maps anywhere and 1:50000 maps are IMO harder to transform into ef maps (Overwhelming Genrealization)

[Jason Petho]

[Scharlemanje]

If a 1:200,000 map does not provide enough detail to create a Campaign Series map, doubling the size to make it a "1:100,000" map is still incorrect as the amount of detail still the same as before - a very generalized overview of the area in question.

Okay Mr. Petho, i know you're a professional and your scenarios are highest standard. Great to see you're around! I get your point here, but for me the proper scale is more important regarding the unit levels in relation to the map and the distances, not the amount of details in the first place. Like a village that took a whole battalion to capture should be in EF unable to be captured with a single platoon or company, or the distance between town a and town b shouldnt be travelled in one turn etc. Pardon me when i say at the moment the amount of details is adoptable for me, its still huge *g

I purchased maps from Eastern Germany before in order to make EF maps out of it, 1:50000 but without scanner its hard to make the hexbuilding accurate enough as i want it. So because digital format and using graphics programs is the only way to build an area really lifelike print versions are useless for me. And then i mean the 50000 scale is so high detailed that its impossible to include everything on it in an EF map, just because there are building types or terrain features that the game doesnt represent. The mapper has to generalize here too and a less detailed topography has already done this step for me That is why i mean a double-sized 1:200000 fits the ef possibilities for me to create the historical battlefield. You are right about the elevation values, but also the less detailed scale includes mountain peaks with exact heights, and i use additional references about the landscape i want to build. I think a high degree of generalization is unavoidable anyway

Okay thanks for your response and info!

[Huib Versloot]

Like a village that took a whole battalion to capture should be in EF unable to be captured with a single platoon or company, or the distance between town a and town b shouldnt be travelled in one turn etc.

The only way to make good scenarios is to use 1:1 scale. I mean you should never change scale for simulation purposes. Sometimes it is tempting to make towns larger than they would be calculating the map scale. In the end it always turns out that that the real scale makes for the best scenario.
I have never found it necessary to alter the scale of the map to get a correct historical simulation in my scns. My advice would be to purchase 1:50.000 maps and use these 1cm = 2 hexes. It's very rewarding if you produce a beautiful correct sized map.

Good luck
Huib

[Scharlemanje]

The only way to make good scenarios is to use 1:1 scale. I mean you should never change scale for simulation purposes.

Totally agree. I stick to 1:1 (One hex of hexgrid overlay map artwork = One EF map editor hex), everything else would be fantasy or generic maps and pointless for what i want to create. And a scenario without historical accuracy i wouldnt even waste my time for, maybe its fun sometimes but its the simulation of the real battlefield and the historical events that makes the fascination for me. What i meant was when using the hex-to-hex method with a 1:200000 base map, the distances for the platoon-sized unit level and unit ranges of EF are improper.