T-34's in Combat Mission

[Copper]

Are T-34's under modeled in CMBB?

Or is it due to the fact that because a lot of the players play QB's they are used in an out of context sort of way. Ie. 3 T-34's versus 3 PzIv's or Stugs whereas historically they were used in mass attacks.

I dont know about you guys but when I use T-34's in QB's they usually provide no opposition andmy opponents easily overcome them... leaving them looking a bit like this.



Bootie

[ATCS]

I only buy T-34's when I can buy them in large quantities, ie: several platoons worth. There was a reason why the Russkies used them in mass. 1v1 against most Panzers is a losing proposition for the T-34. But in a 3v1 or better, hail fire will get most crews to bail after a turn or two.

Now whether or not they are under modeled, I dunno. I'm not groggy on ballistics and penetration tables and all that "stuff".

[Larry Thorne (FGM)]

[McIvan]

I think it has pretty much been thrashed out by the hardened grogs that the gun is slightly undermodelled, in that it should be able to get through 80mm of armour, and secondly Stug armour is overmodelled in all the CMBB 80mm Stugs, in that in real life there was a substantial area of the front that remained 50mm armour. All that means that 80mm armoured Stugs are real T34 killers and pretty much immune to return fire from the front, when in real life they were no such thing because the T34 could get through their armour whether it was 80mm or not.

So yes I think they are undermodelled in CM.

There's a thread on the Battlefront Board arguing that early T34s had a mechanical life expectancy of only a couple of hundred miles. They didn't get really mechnically reliable until later on, particularly with the T34/85s.

[Colonel Talvela]

In CM terms, the T-34 does have excellent mobility. DO NOT get early t-34 in a platoon (and scenario designers shouldnt give platoons of t34s) because the non-HQ unit will have at least a 45 second delay on almost any order. But independent T34s, especially against stugs, have a HUGE mobility advantage that is shouldnt be overlooked. also they have great ammo loads, and the 76mm cannister is very deadly. So personally I think T34 are great weapons in CM. just dont try to engage heavy german armor at range - you will get wiped out.

[BeatGuy83]

I'm not sure if the T-34 is under-modeled or not, but I do know that I have often used it out of context (exactly as you described, Bootie). I think a lot of us suffer from the popular-history mentality that states things like "T-34's were the best tank of the war." Most numerous? Sure. Best? Definitely not.

And here's my problem. They just look so darn cool and deadly, I think they are!

I'm learning (very quickly, in a few PBEM games!) to use them more like my beloved Shermans on the Western front. They are great infantry support, and their mobility cannot be beat. You just need to run 'em smart, play to their strenghs (mass quantities, canister, etc.), and minimize their weaknesses (for instance, no long-range duels due to bad optics).

[Mike Abberton]

I'm learning (very quickly, in a few PBEM games!) to use them more like my beloved Shermans on the Western front. They are great infantry support, and their mobility cannot be beat. You just need to run 'em smart, play to their strenghs (mass quantities, canister, etc.), and minimize their weaknesses (for instance, no long-range duels due to bad optics).

In my opinion, that sums it up very well for the T-34 (at least the T-34/76 versions), except in the case of early war games before the 50mm/60 guns start showing up (and maybe the short 50mm). And certainly once the long barrel German guns start showing up.

I'd agree with McIvan that the T-34 vs. StuG situation is under- (t-34's gun) and/or overmodeled (StuG's armor), but overall they are about right.

The other issue is would be the general overall "Soviet retreat" phenomenon where Soviet tanks crews, even in clearly superior vehicles, tend to retreat the first sign of a Panzer.

[Ralph Metzger]

T-34s are excellent infantry support tanks. They have more HE than you have turns. Direct fire or waste ammo area fire. They handle themselves well in armor duels if played smart. 1 Vs 1 with PzIIIs can be fatal due to ROF and misses. Buy a platoon and use the platoon together. If you think the enemy has tanks, buy guns, button them and pound them with numbers. Even if your attacking, guns are a great attention getter. The movement delay is horrible for buttoned tanks, but the positives of the armor, mobility, and ammo loadout far outweigh that.

[Zemke]

My princilples of T-34 use
1. Try and get 3-1 or a platoon on a individual tank
2. Create the V or shots from two directions creating the crossfire
To do 1 and 2 you have to use the speed and mobility of the T-34, to get in position.
On the Defense I seldom use them, and prefer AT guns.
On the Attack I use LOTs of T-34s in combination with light fast T-70s if possible, if I am going to use Soviet Armor, then I am going big in a big way! But then again my battles are usually larger than the average.

[Zemke]

Colonel Talvela, we need to do another battle, Walkure and I are going to try, (if he agrees) a ME with no flags on a long map with exits. Send me an e-mail and let me know if you are interested. We could keep an AAR and then post it here after we are done, complete with pics.....what do you think?