complete delirium on budapest 45 '

[ghostrider]

[Occam]

46/2 of panther ' s HK against the 17/2 of the T34/85 ? are you really serious.
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If those numbers are correct i'd have to agree.
Fire range tests would not find such imparity..
Soviet weaponry might have been a bit behind . but all were abit behind
german tollerance and optics. [in ww2]
The standard sherman could not boast any superiority over a t34/85
In reality, it was inferior to the soviet vehicle.
Soviet main guns are to be FEARED
Why else are NATO tanks so heavily armoured.?
Why deploy chobham.?

And who is talking of the maus.?
2 prototypes. They could not even get te turret of one prototype to berlin by early may.
It was as viable as a boeing b36 in 1945.

Musashi

[ghostrider]

[Occam]

[ghostrider]

ouf musashi is agree with me , what's a beautiful day but perhaps Saint Glenn ( it's name on CF ) would discover my message and ..; :smg:


serious , we know that HPS motor is not very good on quality coeficient and the upgraded of 88 mm flak was a good decision.

46/2ok but wh'y not 32/2 for T34/85 ??

[greg]

sometime a man as good as he can have to say what he have in his heart ...
i'm agree with you Momo

[cavalry corps]

Just because something is double something else it does not mean it kills double the time , in fact the morale / training has a very big effect much more than you realise in this game



I would say the Axis armour in general in PZC is too weak and this game is starting to address that . Read the notes the values are not just for mm or armour or penetration . Its training , manoeuvre, radios , tactical doctrine and LEADERSHIP . The Russians only win with attrition .



In fact in real life the German Army held off against odds that would see a 200 -1 winner in a horse race every week . Its just incredible they did what they did, I think as we are children of the winners and wrote the history we cannot accept that the Germans were as good as they were .



There is no Maus ?? That was never built , do you mean Jagd Tiger , Is that unit in there , I have not seen it ?



The T34 good ( design ahead of its time and suited for war in Russia without a doubt ) but it was was not really a tank killer more an enveloper and anti personnel tank . Only the Germans set out to build tanks that properly kill other tanks until maybe JS2 , Pershing etc . The T34/85 is an upgrade of what was becoming an in effective tank killer with the little 76mm gun. My understanding is that in general with very superior optics and suspension in the Panther in particular the gun has very high penetration at long ranges and accurate where the Russian guns have a big drop off in penetration ( usually ) and the inability to be able to use the weapon even I f they had it .



Michael

[ghostrider]

ok I know the complete definition of UV.:angry:

it is always the same excuse.

I think training, doctrine, leadership, do not go to HK ( and sorry in 44 russian tank have radio in majority) it goes to moral and with moral A, german panther is at the max ( against T34/85 rarely B often D)

yes T34/85 is not a killing panzer ( and Su 85 with 16/2 is a whell-barrow) but you are too severe globally against russian tank.

you have an political appreciation for an primary technical evaluation ( UV). difference of 3 to 4 coefiicient of moral is suffisant. :mad:

sorry for the maus, it's a young player who says to me the presence of maus

[greg]

perhaps the NAZI were good as they were but if i remember history ...they lost the war...no ?

[cavalry corps]

Another thing is volume , I noticed in M44 when a lot of tanks for together they alaways kill more than even elite small units which seems a bit off . Maybe some of the ratings are do with that
What about the SU100 , thats pretty good and there are T34/85 with B morale ? Even one of the Konig Tigers has B morale .

I do agree that all the games need some re-balance later , which should come from the original scn designers ( as an official patch ) and I think with the exception of S41 not much has happened to review the scn after they are made. In light of the massive input ( free playtesting ) from players as seen on the boards , as well as the new rules as a designer I would insist on doing it . For certain for me there are scn I will not play but could officially be re balanced which we would all rather accept than us modders doing it.

Its one thing to have a good system ( which I suppose it is ) as it is but its another to make the scn keep up with it . VM has tried to do that I suppose.

Maybe later B45 will need some adjustment . For one thing the supply is set at 70/70 for nearly 400 turns thats a bit silly , there should be some variation for both sides as each operational phase is reached . This issue would be a penalty against the Russians in general and as it was .

I am not biased against the Russians , the T34 is a great tank ...I just wish it was German !!!!!!!!!!! :cool:

Regards
Michael