McIvan's View - Clash at Pavlograd - McIvan v [hirr]Leto

[Colonel Talvela]

And, if you recognise your telltale descriptions, you will realise that the hit on the PIII on the left is an HE shell. A T34 firing HE in preference to Ap at this range? Unlikely....so the alternate explanation is that Pete's T34s have stuff all AP...or, at least, THAT particular one has stuff all HE.

explain this to me some more?

[McIvan]

An HE shell striking a tank gives a different text result than an AP shell....the HE shell is the only one that gives a "no serious damage" result even though it failed to penetrate. The AP shell only gives that result after a penetration. If it fails to penetrate, then you get a ricochet or a "shell broke up" type of result. The HE round on the other hand explodes....and you get a result of gun damage or immobilise or "no serious damage".

Consequently that is a tell tale that you are being shot at with HE rather than AP.

[McIvan]

No pretty pictures for this one....it wasn't worth it considering the limited changes I made and most of the situations described are adequately shown in the shots above.

No reinforcements. Would be nice to get some PIV longs (which are apparently coming at some stage according to the briefing) and some more infantry, but I guess we're doing ok so far.

Down by the river in the T34/PIII duel, I give all PIII's reverse orders back to the road. I'm hopeful that the PIII being bashed by the two T34s will soon get itself hidden behind the smoke from the burning Psw222. Although the other two PIIIs still have tungsten ammo, it's a long road yet till the end of this scenario, and I have decided that it would be foolish to emasculate themselves so early. Head to head with T34s is not the way to go. I want flank shots, and this isn't the way to get them, so back we go. I give the two PIIIs on the rise covered arcs pointing them at the two T70s cowering in the wheatfield (in case Pete decides to send them forward this turn), and actually target both of them the T70 behind the house a wee way from the back of the Small Arms Factory.....if the HE about to be shot at that T70 flushes it out, I want the PIIIs programmed to pick him up quickly.

Over by the Small Arms Factory, I find my Sd251/9 can area target with 75mm HE almost directly beneath the T70 behind the house, so I decide to let fly. The dangers in this are twofold....one that the T70 is about to hunt out at my Sd251/9, which will then have a fatal pause before dropping the area fire order....second that an HE explosion under the T70 will cause it to move forward away from the explosion (I'm targeted slightly behind it's centre in order to hopefully engage the weaker non-front armour...it will move away from the direction of the explosion relative to itself ) with much the same result. This was another factor in deciding to disengage the PIIIs properly from the T34s....they should both be able to intervene against the T70 if it comes into view....might not save the Sd251/9 but should avenge it at worst.

At best, of course, the HE fire from the Sd251/9 will immobilise the T70 and cause an abandon or knock it out completely.

On the left I concentrate the armoured cars and 251/9 ...needs another turn to get em together. I decide to make a run for the river ford with my Sd251/10 as a long term project to get across the river and keyhole some Russian halftracks from a position by the bridge. I also set my MG42 to area fire where two Russian HT's have moved forward slightly by the river...a turn of that has a chance of knocking one out or perhaps flushing it into the open where something can get a shot.

[McIvan]

[Colonel Talvela]

Can you a level 8 view of the left and right. I have a pretty good idea of where you tanks are. But I havent been able to follow how many inf units you have and where they are at.

[McIvan]

Um yep. Will do that when I get home.

[McIvan]

[McIvan]

This is, on reflection, a waste of space as an orders turn....losing the second PIII has frozen me into a turn's worth of apathy, and I pretty much halt in place for a turn.

There's sweet bugger-all I can do on the left until some more reinforcements turn up. I toy with the idea of shifting the AC's back to Hill 165, but I don't really want to expose them to fire from the Stuart and T70 at the Grainery Complex, nor do I want to let Pete know the extreme left of the map is unoccupied. But, basically, they're just wasting space. I could send them on a deep flank behind the woods to the left of the Grainery, hunting the Stuart & T70 and Russian HTs, but they're more likely to become the hunted as soon as Pete sniffs it.....the front armour on both those tanks is impervious to my 20mm.


Overview of the Left

I don't think Pete will get a shot off at the Sd251/9, but who knows?

I cancel the area fire order for the HMG in the woods of hill 161...doesn't seem to be accomplishing anything other than wasting ammo.

You can see the Sd251/10 tracking off toward the ford out of sight, and the infantry platoon trudging toward the river.

The replay showed, btw, Russian HT's moving backward away from the Grainery, having dropped off their troops. That seals it for the AC's...no sheep to hunt, just wolves aided by lots of infantry spotters in the Grainery buildings. Not good odds. No real change in orders on the left, then. We need reinforcements to do more than hold.

On the right, the PIII with LOS to the skulking T70s gets new hunt orders to change direction and explose less of that vulnerable side armour. The PIIIs by the river road stay put, with expanded armour arcs in case Pete hunts forward with the T34s, as he well might. But if he doesn't, I want the PIIIs to acquire any T70s flushed from cover.


Flushing out the T70s...hopefully

The immobile PIIIs....a dumb move I now think


The Sd251/9 by the Small Arms factory gets new area fire orders. On reflection (having already sent the turn to Pete) this was a mistake...that dust cloud won't last long at all and then the Sd251/9 needs to be free to acquire the T70. Not moving the PIIIs by the river was also a dumb move I think....the T34s will get side shots and I'm now quite certain Pete will hunt them forward, because otherwise he condemns his T70s to certain death whereas together they can take out the PIIIs with fire from two directions. Dumb, dumb, dumb. Rather annoyed with myself, and I think it reflects that I did the orders too fast and too tired. We'll see if this hurts me.

[Colonel Talvela]

Not many forces yet for that big map

[McIvan]

Nope, it's still reasonably recon based.

In reality we're actually a few turns ahead of where we are on this thread at the moment. I'm just drip feeding them in a regular supply.