Soviet heavy SP guns

Jobu88 · 07-23-2007, 07:01 PM,

Am I crazy, or do Soviet heavy SP guns have an amazingly high first-round hit capability in CM? Emmet smoked three of my Crack Tigers in a game a few months ago with first-round 152mm hits, all three Tigers were given hunt orders with the hatch open and the cover armor arc set perfectly. And now Dogface just blew up two Kublewagons that were moving fast on a road ( i.e. 40 km per hour) at about 1000 meters with a direct hit from what I think is a 122mm. Wow.

Maybe I just have bad karma when facing the Russians.....

Mad Russian · (This post was last modified: 07-23-2007, 10:20 PM by Mad Russian.)

Jobu88 Wrote:Am I crazy, or do Soviet heavy SP guns have an amazingly high first-round hit capability in CM? Emmet smoked three of my Crack Tigers in a game a few months ago with first-round 152mm hits, all three Tigers were given hunt orders with the hatch open and the cover armor arc set perfectly. And now Dogface just blew up two Kublewagons that were moving fast on a road ( i.e. 40 km per hour) at about 1000 meters with a direct hit from what I think is a 122mm. Wow.

Maybe I just have bad karma when facing the Russians.....

Normally the Soviet SP's have a hard time getting hits. What they don't have is a hard time getting kills. A near miss could easily have killed that jeep. Not so with the Tigers. They would have required hits.

The good news for the German is, the Soviet SP's are easier to kill in CMBB, than in real life.

Good Hunting.

MR

Jobu88 · 07-24-2007, 05:24 AM,

Dogface is continuing to build my case.....just smoked a Panther at about 750 meters with a first-round hit. Also sent 2 companies of infantry running for fresh underwear with a miss that was 50-70 meters away from them. Jeez......

I agree that the Russian heavy SPs seem a little too easy to kill especially with the 75mm L43. I figure the 75 L70 and the 88 should realistically be able to kill them, but the standard 75mm seems less likely in theory, yet in CMBB it routinely knocks them out with front hits. Also on the good side of the ledger ( for the Germans) is the terribly slow reload time for the heavy SPs.

The Kublewagons were pretty funny. One took a direct hit and was vaporized, the other one about 40 meters away spontaneously blew up a half-second later. Both of them went rolling down the road spewing flames and smoke for quite a ways before comng to a stop.

PoorOldSpike · 07-24-2007, 08:43 AM,

Gun accuracy is roughly linked to its muzzle velocity, best large-calibre Russki SPG in that respect is the ISU-122 and its mate the 'S' model which have AP m/v's of 790 metres per second, which is almost as good as the T-34/85 (800 mps)

Next best are the ISU-152 and SU-152 at 600 mps which is still pretty good.

Worst is the SU-122 (336 mps) with its stubby little gun.
(That's another thing, short guns of all nations are usually low-velocity and can't hit a barn door)

Dunno what clobbered this Stug, but the hole's huge -
[Image: stugIIIG-direct-hit.jpg]

Ratzki · 07-24-2007, 09:51 AM,

Are the guns we are talking about smooth bore or are they ??(can't think of the term for the spiral cut in a barrel at the moment)?

07-24-2007, 09:53 AM,

rifled is the word you're looking for

McIvan · 07-24-2007, 10:24 AM,

And, yes, they are rifled...

Mad Russian · 07-24-2007, 11:38 AM,

Ratzki Wrote:Are the guns we are talking about smooth bore or are they ??(can't think of the term for the spiral cut in a barrel at the moment)?

Smooth bore is either before 1860 or after 1970. Nothing in between. All weapons in between those dates are rifled.

Good Hunting.

MR

Ratzki · 07-24-2007, 05:48 PM,

Rifled... it's old age setting in, cuz i knew that. Thanks guys. POS brings up a point that is interesting.

Quote:PoorOldSpike

Gun accuracy is roughly linked to its muzzle velocity, best large-calibre Russki SPG in that respect is the ISU-122 and its mate the 'S' model which have AP m/v's of 790 metres per second, which is almost as good as the T-34/85 (800 mps)

Next best are the ISU-152 and SU-152 at 600 mps which is still pretty good.

Worst is the SU-122 (336 mps) with its stubby little gun.
(That's another thing, short guns of all nations are usually low-velocity and can't hit a barn door)

Having fired nothing larger then .45 cal never mind 152mm, I am gonna forage out of my comfort zone and say accuracy has nothing to do with muzzel velocity. At least in rifles, my short barreled 45-70 gov't is extremely accurate even though the bullet is only travelling about 1,300 feet/second. They used this cal. to hunt bison at 1,000 yards and more with iron sights, and at that range a bison is a rather small target. My .338 cal. in a long barrel is also accurate travelling at 2,300 feet per second, I cannot say which one is more accurate.
Would not the same rule apply to these large guns? A high velocity gun would not require as much aiming adjustment at different ranges, but it's nothing that can not be accounted for by the trigger man on a low velocity gun. And as for penetration, bullet weight should out perform bullet speed, all else being equal.

Skeld (FGM) · 07-24-2007, 08:03 PM,

Higher velocity = lower time of flight = less wind drift

As far as penetration is concerned, projectile speed and weight go hand in hand. Mass times speed = energy. Yes a large slow projectile can out penatrate a faster lighter one, as long as its result in the formula above is greater...but sectional density also plays a role...

Man, this is a can of worms that I am reluctant to get involved in the opening of so I'll leave it at that. I use to handload years ago and know just enough about ballistics to be dangerous...

Hopefully someone else with more knowledge then me will pick up the ball.